Ep059: Tony Robbins part 2

Today on the Listing Agent Lifestyle podcast we're continuing on with part two of my New Money Masters episode with Tony Robbins.

So if you're listening to this right now and you haven't heard part one backup, listen to part one and then jump right back over here and you can finish up with part two.

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Tony Robbins on I Love Marketing


Transcript: Listing Agent Lifestyle Ep059

Dean: Tony.

Tony: Let me go back for a second. I'm an owner of a business, and I'm saying, “This is an interesting conversation. Wonderful, you guys are going to talk about I can be totally free, but I'm not free at all right now. I'm busting my tail." I get, once again, if I'm going out and just get my people beating their heads against the wall, me too going out and doing cold calling, that's not going to do it. If I go out there and I just do personal promotion, if I go out there and I live in the world we're in today advertising is so ubiquitous that it has no impact anymore.

You see advertising is costing more. The last research project I saw it used to take, I think, three impressions before people then got to a position of wanting to buy on average. Now, I'm thinking, seven. People are spending more money. They're seeing ads everywhere, but it's all this advertisement that isn't directly related. It's institutional advertising. It's the name of the organization. It's branding.

Dean: Right.

Tony: It takes forever. It takes a long time, so I'm going to be living in this world where economic reality says I've got to be efficient, I need to get into direct marketing. I need to narrowcast who my customers really are, not the giant group, but what are their individual needs and how do I go after those. I need to figure a system for that.

Now, one of the things that you're fairly famous for is simply chunking, even in the real estate side, but in any form of marketing, the three paths so to speak. Will you address that?

Dean: Sure. You mean in terms of the before, during, and after for your business?

Tony: That's right. Yes.

Dean: When you look at it, your business really has to address these three needs. You have to find people, if you're a real estate agent, who want to buy, who want to sell. That would be your before unit. Then, in your during unit is really the unit of your business where you're actually delivering value, delivering what it is that you are experiencing. If you're talking about your resort for instance, from the moment somebody makes their reservation 'til the moment they leave or that they get home safely, that would be the during unit.

Then, the after unit is about nurturing that lifetime relationship with people. Now that they know you, like you, trust you, they've had a good experience, they're the most likely people that will do business with you again or refer their friends. It's not just hoping that that happens, but orchestrating ways that that happens. That starts right from the beginning.

If your intention is to build an after unit where you're building a group of people who know you, like you, trust you, and will refer you and come back again, it's got to start right at the very beginning where you're presencing that, where you're creating a world-class experience for people that they will feel confident and comfortable enough to refer all of their friends.

Tony: If we're looking at a business person right now, small business, large business, and we're saying, "Okay, tackle this. Here is the first step to tackle. Divide your business into these three categories. What's the before that allows you... " It's the real marketing. It's getting the person in the first place who's qualified, who needs and wants or have the pain that you can solve for your product or service and targeting them specifically and going after them in the most efficient and effective way.

It's making sure that during the time you're providing that service, you're adding that value but you're also marketing and planting the seed for future business. Then, it's afterwards, developing that increased relationship because most people, when they're done, they're going on to go start over again to get that first business. I know you have this concept of a 20% return on a relationship. You talk about, they like you, they respect you. What was the third one you gave?

Dean: Know you, like you, trust you.

Tony: Know you, like you, trust you.

Dean: Yep.

Tony: There's equity in that one. Why don't you explain that?

Dean: Well, I do this with the real estate agents. Look at their relationship portfolio as a valuable asset because that's really what it is. It's competition proof virtually.

Tony: Meaning you've already are their agent.

Dean: You are their real estate agent or you are their lender or you are their-

Tony: You did sell them their home.

Dean: You are their carpet cleaner. You are their coach. You are their Fijian resort. Whatever it is, you are the defacto one that's at the top of their mind right now. As soon as people leave, if you don't maintain that relationship with them, that memory fades, that drifts. You're not presencing that with them. I look at that for the real estate agent is to look at managing that relationship portfolio for a 20% annual yield.

Tony: What do you mean by that?

Dean: Okay. If you think about one person who would be within your... We talked about your top 150 for real estate, 150 people who know you, like you, trust you. If you think about one of those people, if you were to just nurture a relationship those people and build a close bond with them, over the next five years, do you think it would be likely that they would do one more transaction with you or refer one person to you at some point over those five years? That is a 20% if you have one time in five years.

Now, when you look at it and you magnify that over the entire bundle of all of your clients, you look at it and say, "Not everybody's going to wait the whole five years to do another transaction." Some of them may never do another transaction, but some of them may refer two or three people a year to you forever if you gave them the opportunity. The after unit, that's a big opportunity that everybody has that most people truly under optimize the opportunity they have there.

Tony: Part of it is the most expensive part usually is getting the customer. We all know this consciously but maybe at a time like this, people will start to focus and say, "Okay, I've worked so hard to get this relationship, how do I made sure that I not only deliver the best service," but sometimes people deliver the best service, but they don't ask for the next step.

I know for example when you talked about when you sent the fliers out on the little booklet for people that are in an apartment about how to buy a house. Well, great. Now, I have an interest. I voted with my hand. I'm in the game, but I know a lot of people do that and then they're mindset will be, "Please, let me know if you want to buy a house."

Dean: Right.

Tony: I know you have a different approach to that.

Dean: Yeah, absolutely. That's about being a leader. That's what people are really looking for is that somebody knows what they're needs are, can anticipate what the next best step for somebody is, and offer them the easiest way to get that next step. You said earlier that a lot of times people just say, "If there's anything I can help you with, if there's anything you want, feel free to give me a call. Here's my phone number and we're expecting that our prospects are going to take the first step. We're expecting them to step out of their comfort zone and ask us to do something for them.

The example I use is if I were to bring you to my house and I were to sit you down in the living room and say, "Tony, I'm really happy you're here. If there's anything you want, there's lots of stuff in the fridge, go ahead and help yourself. I'll be over here if you need me. Just give me a call." Now-

Tony: I don't know too many people that go in your refrigerator even with an invitation. I don't think so.

Dean: Even though I really sincerely would want you to feel comfortable enough to go-

Tony: But, it's against most people's human nature to initiate like that even though the invitation is there. Not some people. Some people will take everything out of your refrigerator and eat all your food.

Dean: Now, if I went into my kitchen and I came out with a plate of freshly-baked cookies and I brought them right to you and I said, "Tony, would you like a cookie?" it would be very difficult for you not to take the cookie.

Tony: That's true.

Dean: The way we're societally-wired is we don't want to reject people, and we don't want people to go out of our way. If I ever said to you, "There's a lot of stuff in the fridge. Can I do anything for you?" You would never in a million years say, "You know what?-

Tony: Make me a steak dinner.

Dean: Would you bake me some cookies?"

Tony: Make me some cookies.

Dean: You'd never want me to go out of my way like that, but if I brought out the cookies, you'd probably take one even if it wasn't your favorite kind of cookie because you wouldn't want me to feel bad.

Tony: It's easier when you have a pathway for someone. You don't just make an offer, but you have a pathway and it's easy then for them to accept the next offer. Most people aren't making that offer because they don't want to feel like they're being a hard closer or they're selling them or they're pushing them or whatever the right word would be. So, what's your philosophy, what's your mindset different than that because that's most people's mindset?

People are inundated, but the truth of the matter is because people are inundated, they get in a state and they might even think about it now, but the next thing's going to distract them, the next email, the next phone call, their kid coming in, if there isn't a specific request. You're good at making sure there's a specific request.

Dean: Right. You look at it, let's take the risk.

Tony: How to make it easy for people to accept some choices.

Dean: Rather than having me expecting you to call me up as a real estate agent and say, "Hey, Dean, we'd like to look at homes. Can you take us out to look at homes?" That's a big step for people to take.

Tony: They might not even know if they're that committed yet.

Dean: Right. If I send you an email or an insert in my newsletter that you're already subscribing to, you've gone from, "I'd like the book on how to buy a home. Yes, I'd like to get the newsletter with all the updates of the new homes in my price range." Now, within that newsletter, if I'm offering you an insert that says, "Hey, Tony, every Saturday in January we're having free Saturday tours of homes where you can come and see homes in your price range. The tours start at 10 o'clock at one o'clock or three o'clock. Just go here and register for one of the tours."

Now, for all the world it seems like, "Well, this is something that's going on." People might have visions of maybe they'll be 20 people on this tour. Who knows? It doesn't matter. It could be a one-on-one tour.

Tony: Yeah, if I signed up for 10 o'clock-

Dean: Exactly.

Tony: You're going to go take me on the tour.

Dean: Guess what? Tony, you're the luckiest guy today. You're the only one. It's just us. You're going to get a private tour. It's taking that next step. Now, we're in a relationship where we're moving forward, where we're progressing. We're taking the next step. That can only happen because I've anticipated what the next logical step is for you.

After we start looking at homes, you might want to get pre-approved for a mortgage, but boy, that preapproval sounds like a scary word. It's got a confrontational element to it, doesn't it?

Tony: Yeah. Am I going to get rejected or not?

Dean: Yeah. I'm going to sit on the other side of the table and I'm going to tell you whether you are approved for a mortgage. We all want approval and any time there's an opportunity where I might not get that approval, I don't want to put myself in that situation. If I offered you a free home loan report where it showed you all of the different options that are available and now, all of a sudden, I'm on the same side of the table as you. You and I, together, we're going to evaluate all of those options and we're going to approve of one of these loans.

It's not that your personal approval is coming into it, it's that I'm giving you information on all the best home loans that are available for your situation.

Tony: What it sounds like is in that first of those three units as you described them, maybe the marketing unit, the getting people to your business, what's the language you used for it? The first step is?

Dean: The before unit.

Tony: The before unit. Okay. Before they become a customer, basically, before they have a real experience, you're taking that and you're really breaking it down step by step and saying, "What's the most minute step so I can get a small step in there? What's the next step and what's the next step?" Then, you're languaging it in a way like when they talk about oil drilling, people don't have a very good perspective of that, but if they say, "We're doing offshore oil exploration-

Dean: Right, it's all about language, isn't it?

Tony: Language changes people's feelings so your home report frames it differently. It's a combination of those before steps of putting yourself in saying, "Who is the customer that really needs this? Who am I going to specialize in, not the whole forest? Who are the individuals? What are the three archetypes, the type of people, the person who wants to buy a house who's in an apartment who doesn't know how, the person who's going to be moving because they're going to still have to move regardless of the marketplace." They've been relocated, so that's another market you obviously went after.

I'm going to pick these two or three areas, not too many, and I'm going to think about what are the steps that these people need that I can provide as a service that's easy. I'm going to not so much assume the sale, but make it very easy for you to accept it. I'm going to make sure I move step by step along the way and then I'm going to move you into where I may be able to be in the during step, where I'm actually able to now serve you.

Dean: That's it. It's okay if you don't want to come into that next level. The whole point is that I'm making that available to you. It's not trying to sell you on subscribing to the Home Finer Newsletter or to coming on a tour, it's presenting it to you, giving that you option-

Tony: And make it easier.

Dean: And making it easy. If you don't want to, that's okay too.

Tony: Yeah, it's not being pushy.

Dean: Not at all.

Tony: And it's the direct opposite of going out there and knocking on doors. That's interruptive. That's what annoys people the most in this area. You get to actually be much more efficient. You're getting people who are already voting release the hand. They're saying, "Yeah, I am done with the apartment. I am considering moving. I am looking at a house." Each time they're raising their hand, you're moving them further down the line in this area.

In the during step, what are the things you do in the during step? Are there a similar pattern there that you do to make sure the person, while you're serving them, while you're delivering your service, prepares them so that they want to do business with you again in the future or prepares them so that they're really going to want to refer their friends? How do you go about that? Tell us in steps.

Dean: Well, okay. Ultimately, it's got to begin with the end in mind. If I talk about this because it starts with presenting your options. That's the first thing. The during unit starts when you're in a consultation with somebody and it can go either way at that point. You've got to realize that-

Tony: So, your free consultation and appointment, that meeting of-

Dean: Yes, exactly.

Tony: Like on the phone or face-to-face, whatever it is.

Dean: Yeah. The first thing that you've got to realize is that what they really want is the benefit. They want the end result that you're offering. If you're selling your house and you're going to interview four or five different real estate agents for that job, well, when it gets right down to it, what you really want is you want your house to be sold. You look at it and with that in mind, you think, "What's the most efficient, what's the most effective thing to get to that result?"

It's not about all the things that you do. It's not about making a big pageantry of all of the things that you do because a lot of times, if we had four real estate agents lined up and they were all presenting all of the different services that they offer, it's not about all of that. Because I could come in behind any one of those and I could talk to you and find out when do you want to move and how much do you think your house is worth? How much are you asking for your house? We've got some information here that says that it's worth $1.2 million. When would you like to move?

If I were to get out my checkbook and write a check for $1.2 million and put that date on the calendar of when you're moving, it doesn't matter how great whatever they were promising is, you're going to go with me because I've got the result that you really want, you know? So, you start thinking about what is the most predictable and consistent way to deliver the result and then add all of the experience elements to it that people are feeling like they're comfortable and confident all the way along the way.

We've been talking a lot about real estate, but it applies to any business. Let's say somebody is in a kitchen remodel business. If you could see somebody sending out postcards offering a free kitchen planner and when they get the kitchen planner you could give them a free six-month subscription to your kitchen ideas newsletter. You could invite them to your kitchen workshop where it shows all of the contractors in there answering all your questions about kitchen remodels. You could invite them to invite you in for a free kitchen assessment.

See how it all goes like that and then when you actually get the business, what are the things that people are going to judge the experience by? What are their criteria for whether they had a world-class experience in addition to getting the ultimate result that they wanted? If you can systemize and streamline that result so that you can get that result predictably again and again and again, that's the freedom right there.

Tony: A guy that I worked with recently that's a web developer does just an extraordinary job and does SEO. The process, he not only delivered incredible work, but each meeting we had was so efficient. He had it planned. It was laid out. It was clear. It was visually stunning. To let us know where we were at each stage. I've raved about him to everybody. I said, "This is the guy. He not only delivered it, but he made the process enjoyable. He was efficient with my time." I felt like there wasn't a time that I was on the phone with him that was wasted.

All those pieces turned me more into a raving fan than just a satisfied customer. I referred more business to him. He didn't even have to ask me about it because I was talking to the people about it. It's the same process then, it's just saying not only what's the end result and how do you get people's confidence so you can deliver that, but what else would make that experience incredibly rich for them, more that would deliver beyond what they would expect? Those are the pieces.

Dean: Always leading, always being a leader. So often, sometimes people focus on the relationship part and they just want to bond and as long as they feel like everything is okay with the relationship, that everything else will be okay. It's really about that leadership, about the purpose, about feeling like everything that is happening is happening for a purpose and you know exactly what's going on.

Tony: Yes. You go, what's the difference between the Four Seasons Hotel and a Marriott? You might say the outside structures or the marble and all those things, but truthfully, when you go through it, it's the service. It's that you get out of the pool and the towel is there. The water is anticipated. Your drink is there. They think of every little creature comfort that's there. Those little creature comforts cost so little, that service costs so little, but it's what makes somebody come back again and again because they felt like they're home. Everybody knows your name.

Dean: When you think about that even one level down from the Four Seasons would be the Westin Hotel where they focused all of their attention on the things that you really are focused on when you're at a hotel. They've got the heavenly bed, focused on that. What are you really most concerned about? A comfortable bed and getting a good shower. So, they've got the dual shower heads with the angled bar. It's all completely outwardly focused on what's going to give you a great hotel experience.

Tony: Even if you haven't been there, just the promise that you're going to have the most incredible bed and you're going to have a great shower and great food is the third one. Those three things cover so much of the area and then when you have that experience, making sure that then they maximize that.

Let's go to the third part. Let's go now to the after experience. Tell me a little bit about what are some specific strategies that people could look at and let's try to do some things outside of real estate. I know you're not just limited to real estate, but I know you trained thousands of them. That's why they're succeeding in this market. Let's look at some other businesses, use some examples just like you did. What would you look at as the after experience? What are the kinds of things that would A, allow you to keep that relationship not just warm, but a relationship where they want to business with you again assuming you have a service that you can sell again and again, or that would get you that referral base?

Dean: Well, first of all, it's about elevating the relationship from just a transactional business relationship into a friendship-

Tony: Or, a family type.

Dean: A type of a relationship. Yeah, absolutely. Where now you've got a friend in the real estate business or the kitchen business or wherever. Whatever business it is that you want people to feel like they've got a friend in that business, like they're an insider now.

The activating part of the aftering is that three things have to happen in order for people to have to refer you. Number one, people have to notice when conversations are about whatever it is that your business does. Anytime somebody refers somebody to somebody else or refers a movie or refers a massage therapist or anything, it's because they noticed that the conversation was about movies or they noticed that it was about books.

Tony: Their back hurts.

Dean: Absolutely.

Tony: They're building a website.

Dean: Yes. You look at that and after they notice that conversation, they have to think about you, that they notice it and that immediately triggers the thought about you. The third thing that has to happen is they have to now introduce you into that conversation.

Now, I can't imagine that anybody who's gone to Fiji and stayed at your resort, coming home noticing somebody else talking about Fiji-

Tony: Or a vacation.

Dean: Or a vacation is going to say something,  they're going to think about you. They're going to think about your resort. They're going to introduce that and almost rave about it.

Tony: They do.

Dean: Yeah. Well, that's what happens. That's because you had a great experience in the during.

Tony: Yeah. Every Fijian knows your name. It's mind-boggling. They memorize every guest's name. They follow up. Every person is following up. People are so happy. They come and entertain. They step up and see where things are. They become family. When people are leaving, they're crying.

I just actually got an email today from Chad Holmes, a gentleman in this business who's really successful, and he said, "I've never gone on vacation in my life where I was sad leaving the vacation. I'm always looking forward to coming home and kicking it." He goes, "I was sad. I didn't want to leave." He goes, "Bro, this is an unbelievable experience." He's immediately talking about who he can refer. Yes, he's going to notice those conversations. He's going to remember us and then what we got to do is make it easy though for people to refer.

Dean: Yes!

Tony: How do you do that and how do you stay in their consciousness? As you say, as time goes by, some experiences are just so incredible, you've created such a raving fan experience, people are there. Other experiences, they're a great experience but they're on to other things. How do you stay in their consciousness and how do you make it easy for them to refer?

Dean: Well, I can't imagine any business that would not benefit by having a monthly newsletter at least, a monthly way, or a bi-monthly at the very least, of keeping in touch with people where you're talking to them not so much about the transactional element now, but focusing on their life, on adding value in their new role.

Tony: Yes.

Dean: If you drove a BMW, it would be different if the BMW dealer was sending you information about all the statistics at the dealership. It doesn't matter. You're not a prospect anymore. You own a BMW. Wouldn't it be great if they were communicating with you about ways to enjoy your new role as BMW owner? To give people opportunities to introduce other people to you. To ask to actively orchestrate that so that-

Tony: Range Rover does a great job of that. Rolls-Royce, obviously, has done that for years and made those types of things.

Dean: Yeah.

Tony: A newsletter is a way to do it. What's another way to do it?

Dean: Another way to do it might be asking people to refer somebody specific. Again, a lot of people look at their client base as that forest. If you look at the individual trees, it's almost like playing detective where you're building a profile of somebody, a referral profile. If they were to refer you, what would be the most likely scenario that they would refer you? People often hang around with people who are in their same situation, their inner circle are all people who could do the same thing.

Tony: Could do the same thing.

Dean: People who could do exactly the same thing. I have an example of friends who live in a townhouse complex and the wife stays at home with the little girl. She's constantly in the playground hanging out with all the other mothers, all the other families, and if anybody was going to be moving within that townhouse complex, she'd know. Next time I was showing townhouses, I would send an email to Kim and say, "Hey, Kim, I'm going to showing townhouses this Saturday. There's only three available. Who do you know that would be selling their townhouse?" Maybe we'll be able to match them up with this couple from Atlanta.

Tony: Right. Part of it is also even looking at your customer base and saying, "Who are my strongest raving fan customers?" and really serving them so that they can serve you and serve what it is you're doing as a business as well.

Dean: Yeah, absolutely.

Tony: Interesting. So, let me see if I've got this now because we've covered a lot of territory here. I own a business and I want to change things. First thing I've got to get clear about when this tape ends, probably the first thing I'd want to do is sit down and say, "If I was going to find being successful, not someday experiencing success when I've achieved something, but what are the criteria, the internal criteria for me, that would make me feel alive, make me feel like my life was on course? What would those criteria be?"

Maybe, like yours, it may have to do with freedom. It may have to do with time. For some people, it may be that I'm fully employed every day doing something, but whatever it is, we've got to know what it is for us. Because otherwise, if you don't start with the end in mind, you're going to end up getting someplace that you don't want to be. You might even achieve and then say, "Gosh, is this all there is?" I've seen that happen to so many people. I think out of our conversation, that's the first piece.

Second piece is, I need to understand the misconceptions about marketing. That branding, unless you've been around for a long time, is very expensive and takes a long time. Instead of trying to brand yourself or brand your agency or brand the company, depending on where you are and the age of the company and the scale of the company, if it's brand new company, if it's five years old, whatever the case may be, direct marketing's going to give me the greatest return for my time and my energy and my money.

I want to look at my direct marketing in a new way. I want to start narrowcasting instead of broadcasting. Instead of saying it's all a forest, I want to say, "Who's got the best?" Right now in this market, even no matter how bad this market may be, there's someplace in this market that's still got to buy. They've got a need. They've got a pain. They've got a problem. They've got a solution they need that I can go find a way to meet and I'm going to act now to identify what are those maybe three to thrive to start out with. What are three areas?

In the real estate example, clearly going back what you did is you started out with saying, "God, these people in apartments need to get a house." That's a new time buyer. These people that are moving, they're going to move no matter what. They're going to have to buy a house. Why not go to them? They have a have-to reason. They have to buy a home. All I want to do is add value. So, you think of those three to thrive.

Then, chunk this, I'm saying is the next step, into the gathering. I want to use the right words here. The what do you call the first stage again?

Dean: The before unit.

Tony: The before unit, the during unit, and the after unit. Let's chunk those into steps where you're adding value, where it's easy to say yes, where the cookie tray is in front of you, where I don't have to ask you to do a bunch. It's easy for me to vote, "Yeah, I'll go there." Basically, you get small commitments and large, little step at a time, so you move people gradually, hopefully, significant segment. They've already raised their hand and said, "I'm interested." You're not cold calling on them. You're moving them down line from that before into the during where you're adding value.

When you're adding a value, you're thinking about what is it that I'm going to do for this person that's not only going to meet their deepest needs but what am I going to do to blow them away? What am I going to do to make them a raving fan? What's one thing I'm going to do to make them family? You're looking at those steps.

The after unit, you're saying, "Okay, the job has just begun. It took so much time, energy, and money to get these people, these are the strongest clients I have. I have equity in relationship. If they trust me, if they like me, if they know me. " Different order, know me, trust me, like me. "If I got that relationship, I need to realize that that's the greatest equity I have. Why should I be starting over? I want a 20% return on those relationships." That's all I'm trying.

Dean: Yeah, yeah, you are.

Tony: I want to make sure that those people are either going to buy from me again, at least once every five years, or they're going to refer somebody. On average, I want a 20% return and that's going to scale my business while I continue to get new customers.

Then, if I've done all these pieces and I keep on running this and I'm focused on those three chunks of my business instead of my business as a whole and I really now want to goose that marketing, really I've got a couple choices. I can find a place with greater pain. What are some of the ways that right now I can goose the marketing? I can say, "I'm going to take what I'm doing, I'm going to find that opportunity." How do I look for that opportunity if I own a business and, better yet simultaneously parallel, I'm looking for an opportunity?

I'd like to have free time. I'd like to not have a bunch of deadlines. I'd like to be able to work with a level of freedom that I can create something and then get an ongoing reward passively when I'm not working. I want to be able to only work with people I like that don't whine. I'm going to say I accept a lot of your criteria. What the heck do I do right now? We're about to finish this interview. Tell me. Tell me!

Dean: Part of it is if you can find a market that has some momentum with it, some built-in momentum, it's like walking on a moving sidewalk. You get on and it's like there's already some momentum going there. So, there's three basic types of markets that have that built-in momentum with them. If you can find a market with pain and urgency built-in. We talked about stop your divorce, talked about the idea of helping somebody in a situation where up until the moment that their partner says, "I want a divorce," they had no need or idea that they needed that service or that book or that product.

Tony: But, when it happens, they know they need it.

Dean: Absolutely. Immediately, it jumps to the top of their to-do list. You've got that pain and the urgency of it's the only thing that I'm focused on right now. If you can provide a valuable solution for pain that has some urgency attached to it, there's lots of built-in momentum-

Tony: So, relationships are an area of that. The body's an area of that potentially.

Dean: Yes, absolutely.

Tony: Health would be an area of that. There's so many different areas.

Dean: Yeah. Something where it's triggered by an event, something that's common. Another one might be, I call it dimes for dollars where doing things that are training people to make more money where they're going to spend or invest a little bit of money with an expectation that they're going to make more money with this technology or this information or this tool.

Tony: So, you find something you can do to add value that they know for a small amount I can make a large amount. Now, again, I have urgency and I have a sense that this could solve a major pain in my life because financial pain's another pain that people have.

Dean: Yeah, right.

Tony: Okay.

Dean: A third would be an irrationally passionate audience. An audience of people who are irrational in their passion for something. Everybody's got something that they're passionate about. It could be golf. It could be their pet. It could be their grandkids. It could be that they'll move mountains or do anything to indulge that passion that they have. That's a joyful experience for people when you're indulging a passion.

Those three, there are probably, there's an infinite number of different businesses that would fit into that category.

Tony: It's brilliant.

Dean: It’s just different markets.

Tony: It's Brilliant. Instead of just picking a business, you pick a business that has momentum. Most relationships, most intimate relationships and you want to know why they're started. It's an interesting thing. It's proximity.

Dean: Is that right? That makes sense.

Tony: Yeah, it's the number one thing.

Dean: That makes sense.

Tony: There's chemistry, but before you get chemistry, there's proximity. Now, today, you can have proximity through technology to some extent, but if you look at relationships, relationships happen because people got in proximity. They started going to the same school. They started work in the same environment. They had similar friends. Today, it can be done by the way of the internet. You can create that proximity in that technological way, but proximity then there's chemistry. Then, there's consistency.

When you look at a lot of people, there have been a lot of studies that have been done in relationships where they ask people, "How'd you guys become friends?" "We have so much in common," but when they do the actual research, they don't have much in common in values. You think you do because you're in proximity with each other. You start to make the shift psychologically.

The reason I say that is most people's business picks them by proximity. They knew somebody that was in that business. They were brought up in an environment that was similar to that. Their family members told them, "This is a great business to be in." They had a friend in that business. They didn't stop out and say, "What are my criteria," and then, "Let me go to a place that's got natural momentum where I got the chance to have people vote with their feet quicker." I love your three criteria that are here.

Now, let's say we've identified one of those. Let's say you figured out that there's an angle that you can go do research on, that there's some education you can provide or an insight or some tools, how do people make money today? You've made millions and millions and millions of dollars and you've trained your clients to do the same. Most of them have done it through education, they've done it on the web. What would be the steps that somebody would go through?

Dean: Well, I think you've hit it on there. Education is part of it. Information is the key. That really is an opportunity where you've got a unique approach to something, you've got a unique solution to that problem where you've got a proven system to generate a result. It all starts with doing it one time with being able to-

Tony: Whether it would be your grandkids, like you said, or whether it would be making more money or any of these categories.

Dean: Yeah, so being able to solve that problem or you have to create a great experience for one person one time and then it's about expanding it out from there.

Tony: Yeah, yeah. We're going to arrange a webinar with each of the people that we interview. We'll have one with you as well on maybe some of the specifics of how they can go about that. My entire career has been finding a problem, usually, one I had initially that I had to figure out how to solve, and my attitude was, "You know what? This is so painful. This is so difficult." One of the things that got me through is that I can figure this out. I can help millions of other people do the same.

Today, with technology, I've had to build huge businesses with giant overheads and they take a heck of a lot of management. Today, we're in a world now where you can deliver those things at a level that costs you almost nothing to develop. Once you've come up with a way to do it, and a way to deliver it where anybody can take advantage of it 24-7, that whole freedom scale you talked about.

What makes you go at this point? What really drives you at this stage of your life? I'm curious. You've done incredibly well. You have this incredible lifestyle. What really makes you go?

Dean: You know, I get joy out of solving problems. It's almost like what we talked about, the metaphor of being an artist with a trust fund. You still like to do what it is you do. I still love applying marketing to different businesses or figuring out a new technique or adapting. You've seen what's happened. All the new technology that's come on. We're seeing all the social media now. I know you're on Twitter. All these things, it's all the new stuff, there's so much fun that you can have applying all this-

Tony: Those are eureka moments.

Dean: Yeah, exactly. That's what kind of thing used to drive me.

Tony: From the perspective of legacy, how would you like to be remembered as a man? I'm curious.

Dean: Well, I think when I look at this, I'm happy that I've been able to build relationships with people and make a difference in their lives, to be able to provide a solution for them. I know countless real estate agents who've come from that cold calling model and not only introducing them to the concept of direct response, but having already figured out how to get listings or how to find buyers and giving them a solution that they basically just turn the key and it goes, it's such a freeing experience for so many of them. That is really rewarding.

Tony: You've gone from just freeing yourself to freeing others as well.

Dean: Yeah.

Tony: Well, I've really enjoyed this.

Dean: I have too.

Tony: I hope the people here watching have and I enjoyed having a chance to take in your lifestyle. Honestly, I'm going to take a look myself and just say, "Okay, what's my current criteria?" You have your criteria at one stage of your life and then momentum takes you in a certain direction. I'm going to go do the update myself in that area and I hope that people watching here will say, "Okay, I get what I need to do. I got to get clear about what's the lifestyle I want." Start with the lifestyle, not with the business.

Dean: Right.

Tony: Otherwise, the business will take your lifestyle. If I'm already in the business, maybe it's time for me to figure out what I want my lifestyle to be and see how to adjust that business or get a partner or sell that business or start over with something new. We're in a world today where people have to make decisions and they've got to make them actively to be able to take advantage of things.

Then, take a look and say, "Okay, what are these direct marketing approaches.” We call this marketing mastery. We're going to introduce people to so many different approaches, but I think one of the beautiful things about what you've done is you've given one of the toughest markets right now, you've given the example several times of real estate, and shown that there are people that are doing unbelievably well right now.

Whatever people are thinking they can't do, maybe it's just about educating them and immersing themselves. Hopefully, this won't be the only interview they see and I hope many people will seek you out, will do this webinar, and get a chance to take advantage of your services.

Dean: Awesome.

There we have it. I really enjoyed that experience. It really was nice to have that conversation with Tony and I hope that you are enjoying it. There's other interviews that we've done with Tony on my podcast, on ilovemarketing.com. Joe Polish and I have had Tony on two times on the I Love Marketing podcast and then he's come and spoken at Joe Polish's Genius Network event, which there may be a video of that on our I Love Marketing podcast as well. Just a super brilliant thinker, so more from Tony if you want to dig a little deeper with that.

Now, something else. I'm very excited that we have just finished our Listing Agent Scorecard and that means that everything that we talk about within the Listing Agent Lifestyle, all the eight elements, we've put together a simple scorecard for you to see where the eight elements are working for you and where they're working against you, where the biggest opportunity is for you. You can do it at listingagentscore.com. It's all online.

You can fill out the scorecard and get a sense of where the biggest opportunities are. You get a sense of what's actually possible for you by evaluating where you are right now. I would encourage you to do that at listingagentscore.com. If you'd like to continue the conversation here, you can go to listingagentlifestyle.com. You can download a copy of the Listing Agent Lifestyle book and I'll put the links to the Tony Robbins' episodes of I Love Marketing in the show notes of the episode here. That's at ListingAgentLifestyle.com.

Then, if you really want to dig deep and go after applying all the things that we talk about in the Listing Agent Lifestyle, all of our programs for getting listings and converting leads, and finding buyers, and getting referrals, all of that is at GoGoAgent.com. I invite you to come over, take a look around. You can have a complete 30-day, no credit card required trial. You can come in and take a look, see everything that we've got, introduce yourself, check out our message forum and our member blog, and I would look forward to seeing you over there.

Have a great week and I will talk to you next time.