Today on the Listing Agent Lifestyle podcast, we're kicking off the New Year with a very special episode, revisiting Ron Reed.
If you've been with us since the beginning, you'll remember Ron was one of the first episodes on the podcast, and he was famously the guy who got his very first listing, and sold it before his 30-day trial at GoGoAgent even expired!
He's developed that into amazing things over the last three or four years, and we had a great conversation about something we in GoGoAgent called Market Maker Monday.
Ron's been the greatest adopter of this strategy. We have a whole thread in our forum where we post the results of sharing Market Maker Monday emails, and in this episode, we talk about the results people have been posting, and the psychology behind being a market maker.
As a case study, Ron has some great numbers from the first year of people who responded to him, and what's happened with them over the three years since.
It's another great example of winning through consistency.
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Transcript: Listing Agent Lifestyle Ep100
Dean: Ron.
Ron: Dean.
Dean: Wow. I can take comfort that it said this call is being recorded. So, we're going to capture every moment of the good -.
Ron: As you say, it's all very exciting.
Dean: It's all very exciting. Are you feeling better?
Ron: I am, yeah. Hopefully I'm not too nasal-y. I got over a fever, cold, all that good stuff.
Dean: Yeah. I've been doing the same thing. So, hopefully we'll make it through. I have been thinking about and hoping, looking forward to revisiting everything. Can you imagine, it's very appropriate that we're coming up on 100 episodes of Listing Agent Lifestyle right now.
Ron: Yeah?
Dean: Yeah. What were you? Number two or three?
Ron: I think it was three, yeah. Because Chuck being the first one and then Tony.
Dean: That's right. It's been a while. So here we are. Let's remind everybody where in the world you are, and a little bit of the back story. And then we'll do the update.
Ron: Yeah. I joined you and your group, I think it was towards the end of 2016, so about three years ago or so. I was famously one of those that within my first 30 day trial, was able to generate and sell a listing, so I was playing with house money right out of the gate, and ironically, I got another lead shortly right after that, which I sold very quickly as well. I was hitting the ground running.
Dean: You're still playing with house money, which is great.
Ron: I have been ever since the first month, yeah. And then from there, have continued to grow each aspect of the Getting Listing lifestyle, starting with the Getting Listings program, and then moving forward with some of the other aspects. This last year, I really dived in and really concentrated on the Market Maker activities. I put together some numbers that we can discuss here, but it's just been awesome.
Dean: I love it.
Ron: Like you said, I've been playing with house money.
Dean: So, do you have any of the numbers for the Getting Listings stuff so far?
Ron: I do yeah. I've got a couple. I've got some things that I've grown up to, so I got the mailing list up to 5,000. I rushed to get 20 neighborhoods. Once I had gotten there, I had some personal life changes, my wife and I welcomed our first child into the world, which is awesome.
Dean: Nice.
Ron: And then, had some business changes as well, so started to concentrate on those top three tier of the Getting Listings lifestyle, the financial piece and the daily joy. So I had to scale back that 5,000. It was a little bit too much to chew. It's a little crazy once you get up into that level, so I've pulled it back down to about 2,000 very consistently. But Dean, you're going to love this. I went back through and looked at that very first neighborhood that I did, and dived into the numbers. I remember Tony had, I think you had mentioned that he had a bunch of sales from that first year.
So I thought, "Well, then let me see if that's consistent." That very first neighborhood, about 400 homes, that's always been consistent. I've always mailed to that. That very first mailing, I got 20 leads, and I looked back, and 10 of those 20 have sold, which I've sold five of them. So 50%, almost all the way down through, which is amazing.
So let's-.
Dean: Hang on, hang on, hang on.
Ron: Yeah, okay.
Dean: Because this is almost identical to what we're finding. Let's just set the stage on this. Let me get my piece of paper here, or my remarkable tablet. Okay. So I got a new sheet here. So, in what ... so 2016, it was in the summer right? August or something?
Ron: Yep, yep, it was towards the end of the year, towards ... yeah, as we were going into fall.
Dean: Okay. So, August or September or somewhere around there in 2016, you mailed to 384, is that what you said, 384, or four-
Ron: Yeah. It was around 400, the neighborhood's around 400.
Dean: Okay. 400 homes, and you got 20 responses of the people, and since that time now, so three years later, right? Three and a half years later, let's call it, to be the most here. That when you looked back on it, 10 of the 20 people who responded have sold their house.
Ron: Yep.
Dean: And you got five of those 10?
Ron: Correct.
Dean: Okay.
Ron: So, the very first mailer. I've since grown that list ... I've got about 60 on that list now, but of that very first 20 leads,
Dean: That illustrates exactly what we're talking about. Now we've got it in a big city in Canada, we've got it in the US now. You've got this idea ... the biggest thing that I ... actually let's just ... I want to calculate your ROI on just that one mailing. So let's say that you spent $300 on that one mailing, and how much are the houses in that area? Well, don't worry about the houses, how much commissions have that five transactions generated?
Ron: Yeah, so average commission in that area is about $9,000.
Dean: Okay, so about $45,000 from a $300 investment, plus we got to say you've mailed the newsletters to all of them for that whole time too, right?
Ron: Yep.
Dean: So, 36 months worth of newsletters that you've mailed to them. And that is just like exactly what we talk about. You're right on track with that. The biggest thing that I, if I could just implant that level of certainty in people. You see it, too. The biggest thing that we see in the forum is people coming in, mailing for three or four months, and then second guessing themselves and thinking, "I need to jump over to another area," or, "I can't keep this up," and I think that you did the smart thing of starting with 400 homes that you know that you could commit to that over the long period of time, and to parlay from that. I think it's just that people don't have the patience, I think.
Ron: Yeah. It's kind of strange in the very beginning, because obviously that first mailer, I just got a lot of excitement from the [crosstalk 00:10:06]. Generating 20 leads. I had never done a marketing campaign that did that before, and I was just like, "Wow, this is awesome." And then as more mailers went out, obviously that response comes down.
Dean: Right.
Ron: But yeah, you're right, I knew from based on your teachings that just stick with it. And I've just grown into the number one agent in that neighborhood and [crosstalk 00:10:28] spin off sales from it, just based on that alone.
Dean: And then, when we look at that now overall, you're at a point to where you're mailing the postcards to 2,000 homes.
Ron: Yep.
Dean: And how many people do you have in the portfolio? The leads that you're mailing the newsletters to? How many leads have you generated?
Ron: Yeah, so overall around 300. So 300 going out each and every month, just as you said, with the cover letter, MLS printout and the top dollar newsletter.
Dean: Yeah. So even if we stop with those, even if the mailings stop, and we look at, based on what happens with Tony, and what's happened with you, that if we say that half of those people are going to sell their house, that's 150 of them. And let's say that you've maintained your share of getting half of that half, you're at the 75. There's still 75 transactions in there for you over the next three to five years, you know? That's what's so ... it's the gift that keeps on giving.
Ron: Totally.
Dean: It takes a while to plant the orange trees and tend to the growth, and once you get it going, it's like that's exactly what happens. I had a ... I don't know whether you were on the last Go Go Agent call, but Jason Gruder was talking about the maturity ... there's nothing more satisfying than overseeing a mature Getting Listings area that is yielding a couple of listings a month. That's the stage that they're at right now in North Carolina, and that's just ... I try to document all these things so that people feel the comfort and confidence to know that this is all going to work out, you know?
Ron: Oh absolutely and the consistency of it too, if you're really consistent month after month of getting that out. I think it was [crosstalk 00:13:03] that had mentioned it, but I had gotten a call earlier this year, a member at the Go Go Academy, and she had mentioned that the seller had asked her to put her in the will. And I thought that was -]. I too had got that call earlier this year, the guy's like, "I'm not ready to sell right now, but I'm meeting with my attorney and we're putting together the will, and you get the listing regardless." So I want your - to put me in the will.
Dean: Oh, I love it. That's the best.
Ron: And I just had a listing appointment two weeks ago with a seller, and it was kind of the same thing. I walked in, there was no competition, he even said it, he was like, "I know a couple other realtors in the area, but I called you because I've been getting your monthly mailers every month," and he hasn't responded, and I haven't been bothering him or just checking in at all, just consistently sending the mailers and here we are.
Dean: Yes. That's fantastic. I love it. We see that again. I don't know whether you saw the video in the Go Go Agent that I put up with Kenny McCarthy, where I saw him at Celebration when I was on my way to Australia, and he'd been mailing for five years to someone, and they listed and sold their two and a half million dollar ocean front home in Cape Ann, and they said to him, "You've been mailing to us for so long, we feel like we had to give you a shot." So he got the listing, and ended up selling it. It's so ... it's great. Evidence upon evidence upon evidence. I love it, at the end of the year here, as people are, evaluating and thinking about going ... what their methods are going to be next year, that this is ... come on in. The water is great. I think that's really a good thing.
Ron: Okay, and I looked at another neighborhood and was able to run the numbers, and they're exactly the same. It's 50% all the way down, of the number of homes that were sold, the number that I got from that, and it's very consistent. I've noticed that. As I stay consistent, the program remains consistent. It's really cool.
Dean: I love it. The thing that I'm excited to talk to you about, is that you have become the most disciplined executor of one of my favorite low hanging fruit things that people can do, which is focusing on being a Market Maker. I want to hear everything about what you've been doing, what your experience has been. I think you said you had some numbers and stuff around that, but either way, explain what you're talking about and what you do.
Ron: Yeah, the Market Making activity, when you had started to talk about getting into habit, it was really that word habit that really stuck with me, because I realized that this is really what we do as realtors and brokers, is match buyers and sellers together. It just made a lot of sense to me that when I'm working with a buyer, that I would reach out to sellers that I know in the areas that they're looking, and vice versa. Let the sellers know about buyers that I'm working with. It was such a much better conversation to have, rather than, "Hey, I'm just checking in. You-?" Position, so I've really enjoyed that.
But what really stuck was waking up every day and asking myself that question, "Who am I showing homes to? And who is considering selling?" And having meaningful conversations around that. That was powerful once I started getting that through. I was able to, just this year alone, directly correlate six sales to that, which equates to around $50,000. Now we're talking - money here, because this is ... there's no cost to it.
The conversations that I've started have been ... I've gotten probably a dozen other conversations, so I feel that that six is going to accelerate, much like the Getting Listings program, - over the years, and I see that with sellers, one of them reached out and said, "Hey," it was exactly like you had mentioned it, they said, "Hey, it sounds like you work with a lot of buyers in our area. We're considering selling." And that's how they opened the conversation. I was like, "Oh, this is interesting."
So, I didn't ask them, "Hey, just checking in," and all of that, they reached back out to me after I had basically got a buyer who's looking for X, X and X, very specific. You can see some of the examples in the forum. And making sure that anytime that buyer does want to go out, obviously some sellers are like, "Hey, we're not ready yet. We're thinking next spring," but it opens up a conversation. It's just been fantastic, but $50,000 specifically this year alone, I didn't look at last year, contributed to that.
Dean: That's so great, and have you been focused on that for the last two years, or were you really sort of more specifically focused to it this year?
Ron: More specifically this year, but I started it, I think it was about two years ago. But this year really.
Dean: Because I ... the funny thing is, I try and keep that alive for people in the forum. Establishing ... this is what I say to people, if i could just establish the habit of Market Maker Monday, that if just one day a week, you wake up, look at your calendar and say, "Who am I showing houses to this week?" That you've got people who are scheduled to go and look, you're going to see somebody about selling their house, and then just overlay that on all the people who've responded to your Getting Listings, and all the buyer leads that you've generated, and dropped pins of where your top 150 are, and seeing ... to orchestrate some referrals there as well.
Do you do that flavor of it, too? In terms of sending it to ... if you're showing houses in River Run, to send to your top 150, just seeing if they've heard anybody talking about selling?
Ron: I do, yes. One thing that I started kind of early with that very first neighborhood. I'm not sure entirely why I did it, but I surrounded that neighborhood with other neighborhoods for the Getting Listings. So, much of my entire campaign is very geographically focused in a pretty niche area. Because of that, when a buyer approaches me about, "Hey, we're thinking about a house in this neighborhood," and if I don't have anything in that neighborhood, "Well, what about this neighborhood next door? It's in the same school district, have you guys considered that?" And just open up way more conversations as well. But yeah, the 150, sometimes they're out of area, sometimes they're not. But yeah, definitely just reaching out.
Like for example, if I've got a condo buyer, to say, "Hey, do you guys know anybody who's interested in selling a condo on the west side of town?"
Dean: Yeah, right. I love it. Can you walk through one of the stories of how that ... the mechanics of how it actually happened? These six transactions, I think it would be good for people to hear what you actually did and how it all came about.
Ron: Absolutely. We'll start with listing. Had a listing in a specific neighborhood, and the buyer had contacted me. Said, "Hey, we're interested in taking a look at the house." I said, "Okay, cool."
Took them through the house, the layout wasn't what they were looking for, and they were looking for something a little bit bigger. So, once I had figured that out, I just asked them, I said, "Hey, have you seen the other homes in the neighborhood?" They said, "Yep, we've been looking for a little while. I can't find anything." That's when I opened up that conversation of, "Hey, have you considered these other neighborhoods?"
They said, "Yeah. Here's what we're looking for." So I took down the number of bedrooms, bathrooms, so on and so forth. And then I reached out to my list, the database from the Getting Listings program, so kind of layering it right on top. Reached out, one of the sellers responded. Said, "Hey, yeah. In fact, just had a child graduate from school, the house is too big. We're looking to downsize. I would be interested in what we can do here."
So, very similar to the silent market or the - that we reviewed, just said, "Hey, let me pop by, take about five minutes -." The conversation just kind of flowed right into that. Went over and met with them, and they said, "Well, we're not looking to sell right now, but you had mentioned you had a buyer."
I said, "Yeah. Let's bring them through." So, brought the buyer through. All completely off market, house wasn't even on the market, and matched them up. So just that matchmaker right there. I helped that seller then buy their next house, so I mean, the money then- spin off from there.
Dean: Oh, that's so great. That's exactly how I would encourage people to orchestrate it for themselves. So many things, once you've got this pool of 300 people who are potential sellers, surrounding this one geographic area, that anybody looking in one of the areas is probably considering the others, just like you said. You've got that asset now, that nobody else has access to. That's what's so great. I love that. Does another example come to mind?
Ron: Yeah, it does. I was just thinking to myself if someone's listening and they're like, "Well, I don't have a listing, so how would this work?" I've had others where I've generated buyer leads. This could come through Zillow or some of the different portals. I have a ton of different portals out there that concentrate on buyers. Let's say a buyer, in this particular case, it was one that came from a commission thing, generated through a Google app where they had come through, were kind of off standish, wouldn't really respond to too much, but I had noticed that they were looking in a specific area that I service. So, I just reached out to them and said, "Hey, have you considered building in this area?" And that opened up the conversation with them, and they hadn't gone through that process yet, and they weren't really excited about that, but that led to another conversation of a neighborhood.
And said, "Have you seen the homes in this neighborhood?" And they were like, "Yeah, we love that neighborhood, but there's nothing for sale." And in that particular neighborhood, there was nothing on the market, or if they were on the market, they were already under contract.
I did the exact same thing. I sent out the message, "Hey, I've got a buyer that's looking for X, X and X." I gave some back story of what they were looking for, why they were looking in that area, then again, in this particular case, seller said the same thing but was on the opposite side. The house was a little too small for them, and they were looking to build up. So, they were thinking about selling. I said again, the same thing, "Hey, how about I pop by, take about 30 minutes or so," that conversation was just very natural.
Then, the same thing next occurs. That seller ended up building, and so ... obviously you don't need too many spin off sales, but got the buyer and seller together. That one, the seller wanted to go on the market to create some competition, but the buyer ended up getting it anyway, they just had to pay a little bit more.
Dean: Right, right, right. That's so great. That kind of thing, now you know you're layering on top of it here. You've got this asset of the 300 people that you've generated. You've got this really ... I'm going to call it a leverage habit that you've developed of making that every week or every day or whatever, the constant thought of being a Market Maker on this, which has yielded an extra $50,000 for you for just reaching out in probably the most valuable way that you could reach out to someone.
The other thing then is now, looking at all of these opportunities as an opportunity to focus on your listing multiplier index and moving forward to multiply. So, what's the latest on your listing multiplier index? Because at one point, I know you were up over three.
Ron: I am again. I'm at 3.1.
Dean: Okay. Yep.
Ron: I haven't put it on a graph, but I know it kind of goes up and down, because I've had some that maybe didn't produce as well, then what was it? A couple years ago, I had a couple that expired, and that brought it down, but -.
Dean: Yeah, exactly.
Ron: Very, very consistent throughout. What I found with the listing multiplier, obviously that's got its own power to it, but going back to the Market Maker, one thing that I noticed, it's like a trifecta if you will, where buyers have told me they want to hear about homes before they come on the market, and it's something that they want. They want this source of data, which is what we're creating with it.
Sellers want a quick sale, and potentially maybe even something that's off market as well, because they don't want the circus to come to town so to speak, because demand's so high.
Dean: Yeah, yeah.
Ron: That if they don't have to do too much, and can get a quick sale ... so those two kind of go together, and then the third one being as a realtor, we always want what some would consider now business. That's really what that is.
Dean: Yeah. It's perfect. It's a perfect storm. Yes. You know what's so funny? There's on Netflix right now, there's a comedian special by Ronnie Cheng, and he's talking about ... he's got a whole thing talking about Amazon Prime, and how we're so about now. We want now, right? Everything where like, "I can get it tomorrow? It's so slow. I want you to slowly place the item in my hand as soon as I hit the buy button. I want you to deliver the food right to my house and put it in my mouth, chew it for me." The whole thing is jus that we are really rapidly moving towards 100% convenience is what we want. So, with you doing that, the other thing that is really amazing, is if you can get and create in your environment, a culture of Market Making, where we've got a couple of pilot programs that I'm starting for next year, looking at whole offices, taking this Market Maker mindset.
But imagine if you facilitated that as an office, that everybody was in that Market Maker mindset, that you could, every Monday, or if you do a meeting or whatever, that everybody could share, and you'd have to uphold the standard that this is not ... I may have someone for a three bedroom in this area, or I've got a prospect for this, not that, it's that the people that you're actively showing houses to right now, or the people that are actively about to put their house on the market. That if you shared those with the people in the office, that now, you can quickly check your things and say, if you don't have someone for that thing, say "Hey, one of my associates in my office is showing houses this week to somebody in River Run, and there's only a couple for sale right now. Have you heard anybody talking about it?"
That kind of thing, collectively gives you an opportunity to Market Make from other people's activity, imminent activity, and gives the ... widens up the scope there, without diminishing anything from each other, because it's non competition. They're already showing houses to this client, so you're not revealing anything or limiting yourself in any way, it's just a collaborative cooperation that is going to help everybody, you know?
Ron: Yeah. That is powerful from an office aspect. Tell me more about the pilot program that you're putting together there, because I'd be interested in hearing how it - from a higher level there.
Dean: Well, one office, the biggest one, has 350 agents, so we're cordoning off about 80 ... a 20% test group for the world's most interesting postcard, and Market Making and just the listing multiplier things. Just the big three that a broker can help coordinate. That if a broker has an office that they can help agents increase their return on relationship in their after unit, they can help raise their listing multiplier and help convert the leads that they've already generated. Those three things are the biggest needle movers that don't create a competitive situation among each other. You know? Because no matter what, however lovey dovey the team is and how much the culture and everything, when you really get right down to it, the people in a team, as soon as it comes individually, they still view as competitors, as opposed to ... you know what I mean?
I'm talking about on a below the surface level, that it's really, "I want the team to thrive, but not at my personal expense. I want the team to win, because I know that will then benefit me, but I don't want it to take away from me."
There's some things that are doing, if they're doing lead ... if the broker's doing lead generation, and then there's always that feeling of, or accusation of showing favoritism to people or that somebody gets a lead that somebody else deserved, or there's all that stuff. But when you deal with your top 150, the people in you're sphere of influence is locked in already. There's nothing ... your top 150 is different than my top 150, so a broker can help create an environment that lets everybody cooperate to have access to all of the collective relationships that they have in a way that is going to benefit both. If you think about if there's a Market Maker Monday meeting organized, where you come to the meeting, or even you could do it on a Slack channel. We're going to do it digitally, not a real physical meeting, but if you come, and you've got ... the idea is that you, on Monday before noon, submit your Market Maker inventory for this week.
You've got, these are the buyers that I am definitely showing houses to. I've got appointments to show people, because what you don't ... this is why the importance of reviewing this, and holding this to the highest standard is that you can't say to somebody, "I've got a buyer for River Run. We're showing houses in River Run this week." And then you take them at their word and you reach out to your, either your prospect or your relationship and you say, "I was talking with someone in my office. They're showing houses this week to someone who's looking for a place in River Run. Have you heard anybody talking about selling? We may be able to match them up."
But you can't then, when you say, "Okay, we got someone," be out of integrity when that person says, "Oh yeah, they're not ready yet."
Ron: Exactly.
Dean: It's got to be that you can get them ... I'm going to add that to the list of homes that I'm going to show them on Thursday. That's where that could really benefit everybody. Rather than just silently looking at what's in the MLS and looking at their own relationships, but not sharing with anybody that they're showing houses to somebody looking in River Run.
So if you, collectively can set a place where that is revered, and that the standards are ... you have to really maintain the integrity of that. That could be an amazing opportunity. You look at ... you did six transactions on your own in the last 12 months doing that, but if you multiply that times 70 agents in a test group like that, that could do those, it's real, real numbers.
Ron: Oh yeah. And it's exponential, too. You had mentioned in the beginning of the 20% of those agents ... because as I've been going through this and that habit and really asking myself that question every day, is expanded to other agents. And I know that there's 20% that do 80% of the business in these areas, and it's really formed good relationships with those agents, and I'm like, "Oh man, I imagine they're working with buyers," and if there was only just an MLS of just buyers. - but of buyers and what they're looking for. What a match that would make.
Dean: Yes, exactly. That's the thing where ... I think the neat thing about it is that of now buyers. That's what makes this thing, is when you look at it, it's not like, "Oh I got somebody who may be looking here," but they're going to then take ... they told you that they have somebody, and then you go find somebody and how they've got to go try and spur up interest with their person? That's not going to work. It's got to be with somebody who's actually already looking right now. You create that sense of urgency. That's how that could work, but you imagine the impact that that could have on a broker.
Ron: That would be amazing. And like you said, it's now business. That integrity has really got to be there, because some sellers, I've noticed, will not necessarily call out bullshit, but just be like, "Oh, okay. Well tell me more." That kind of thing. It opens up the conversation, but I think they're just kind of poking, say, "Are you one of those agents that may have a buyer for my house?"
Dean: Yes, exactly. Yes. That's it. That's kind of ... you have to maintain the honor, because that ... the worst thing that could happen for you is that that has even the hint of a technique or just a bait and switch or a trick, you know?
Ron: Exactly. Yep.
Dean: Yeah. That's kind of the thing. But creating that culture of Market Making, I think is one of those things that is like the lowest hanging fruit that would be available.
Ron: Oh absolutely. And you were mentioning too, with the competition of it, and I remember reading something recently on some changes in the MLS, and really the idea behind the MLS is cooperation. And I thought maybe we've ... that competition aspect or that mindset has really kind of pulled the threads of that cooperation.
Dean: Well, there's the thing. The MLS is the perfect example of it. Is that, by the time a property gets listed, the competition is over, so now it only makes sense to cooperate. Because I've already got the listing, but it's not going to make sense to put my unlisted prospects in there, because the fear would be that somebody's going to scoop that prospect.
So when you think about it like that, it's like ... that's really a great win, but if you give somebody an opportunity to on their own, reach out to their prospects, or their sphere, that's going to be a multiplier.
Ron: That's awesome.
Dean: Yeah. It's pretty amazing. So, that'll be a fun thing. And you know me, I love to create and document case studies because that's how it all happens. Yeah. That makes it repeatable.
Ron: Oh absolutely. I remember when I was first starting too, with Tony, and seeing his path, and you mentioned that I was on that similar path, he gave me a lot of confidence, "Hey okay. This is where I can see," and I've been looking at his map and thinking, "Okay, am I on track? Am I where I need to be?"
Dean: Yeah, you really are.
Ron: I mean, that's really ... that's the great thing.
Dean: That's fantastic.
Ron: And people that are starting now can know too, that like I said, I just started with that one neighborhood, spending consistent throughout, became the number one agent in that neighborhood, which by itself, has created other sales, just by the presence of it.
Dean: Yeah, I had one, your story of having some listings in a row and having my for sale signs as I drive down the road, I'm like, "Oh wow." This is kind of interesting to see the same name, and I remember you mentioned about the guy saying if you were running for mayor.
Ron: Yeah. I said, "Oh, I didn't know if you were a real estate agent or if you were running for mayor."
Dean: That's great.
Ron: Yeah. But anytime that you're doing that level of business within an area, people take notice.
Dean: Yeah. You're absolutely right. Because then you're the market leader within this thing, and that comes with a premium. Procter and Gamble know that, that ... I was reading their book. The reason that they focused on category leadership is because there's a 28% premium on being the leading brand. It's just an interesting thing, that there's a premium of being the leading agent. Because there's some people have a bias to just lean to, "Well, who's the top person? Okay, well that's who we go with." That's an advantage. There's that.
That's why my favorite thing is to sneak in from behind, because you're not doing it in a personal promotion way, you're not sending out postcards saying, "Call Ron and start packing," you're not doing all of that stuff, you're serving, and you're creating this ... you know that those 300 people that you've already generated right now, that if it goes from the saying, that 50% of those are going to sell their house, and your track record right now, is that you're going to get 50% of those. That's pretty exciting when you look at what the equity you already have in that is.
Ron: Exactly, and as I look at that, those monthly follow ups and touching each one of those, and building relationships with them, I know that that will continue to grow, and it's very exciting to know that I've already got that built and then continuing to build it as well. One thing that I had worked on, I think this was last spring with this last one, was that bell curve of understanding where are the buyers coming from? Where are my sellers going? And then creating oil wells in those neighborhoods and it's - a 10, 20 year plan, but it's so consistent if you remain consistent.
Dean: Yes. I love it. I love it. So, okay now let's get back to the listing multiplier index. I'll do a quick recap on what that is, because we may have some people that may not be 100% familiar with it. One of the elements of our Listing Agent Lifestyle, number one is Getting Listings. So we've got ... if you're going to have a listing centric business, you've got to have a way to establish, to get new listings, which that's what we've been talking about. You've got that.
Number two is to multiply your listings, and that means turning every listing that you get into multiple opportunities. So, we look at it the way you calculate your listing multiplier index is to look back at the last 10 listings that you did and calculate how many transactions you did from those 10 listings. Each listing gets five opportunities. You've got a chance that the listing gets sold. You've got a chance that you find the buyer for it. You've got a chance that you find a buyer who buys another house in a neighboring neighborhood or another area. You've got a chance to get the next listing in that neighborhood. And you've got a chance to get a referral from the seller, so there's five transactions. You get a possible 50 points out of those last 10 listings. Now, when we present it to people, mostly we'll find that they're somewhere between eight and 15 points that they got on those last 10, which when we divide it by 10 to get the average, or the index of it, it works out to be, if you got 15 points, divided by 10, 1.5. the most common thing that we see, is one. Is the thing. That they either got all of the listings got sold, or eight of the listings got sold and they happened to find a buyer who bought another one.
But whatever it is, they get a listing multiplier index of somewhere between .8 and 1.5.
Now, fast forward, since we've been talking about this, and focusing on the strategies to multiply the listings, we have people who are over three as a listing multiplier index, meaning each time you get a listing, that it turns into three plus transactions. So, with that, lets' talk about the history of what happened with you. Do you remember what your listing multiplier index was the first time you calculated it?
Ron: I don't. The very first number that I have though is 2.2. I don't know if that was the very first one, or when I first became knowledgeable of it, because it turned on the light, let's put it that way. I didn't have any clue. But once I started tracking it, I started at 2.2.
Dean: Okay. And so then tell me what's been going on? What's your journey with that?
Ron: This is interesting, because when I had first heard this method, my process prior to that was when I got a listing and got it under contract, I celebrated the idea that I got it under contract, ride that through pending, and it's done. And I never really concentrated on any aspect beyond that. Because it was, "Let's get it under contract as fast as possible, and sell it." That's really what my mindset was on. But once I had heard this idea, I thought, "Oh my. I'm really missing out on all of these other opportunities to be able to generate leads or other sales," and really kind of celebrate in that. And that's where I started to move it up.
I was able to get it up to the ... prior to, without even knowing it, in our area, open houses are really good, so I was able to always generate multiple buyers from a listing. [crosstalk 00:49:34] but I wasn't concentrating on getting other listings in the neighborhood or selling that house, or getting referrals. And so on and so forth.
As I grew that and watched it starting to grow, I got excited, because it's similar to the Market Maker, in that it's almost like free money. Now that I've gotten it up to 3.1, I know that when I walk into a listing appointment, and walk out with that contract, that's going to equal three sales for me. And going into the future, thinking about, like you had mentioned, Procter and Gamble, you could almost make that listing a loss leader, because I know that future sales will come from it. And- knowing that data in the beginning, the knowledge is power, knowing the 2.2, but then utilizing that knowledge and growing it is really where the power is.
Dean: That's fantastic. What did you add and do and change as a result of trying to raise it? And what's been the most effective things that you've done?
Ron: Yeah. I remember talking with Cindy Hayden, so if anybody's listening, listen to her podcast, because she's got some phenomenal information around this, because she was able to grow hers really good, too. So really concentrating on the neighborhood, about getting neighbors into an open house. Also the Market Maker, and layering and that Google map of knowing what other sellers I'm talking to in that neighborhood, - from that open houses, for example.
And then another one, getting the referrals from the seller. That wasn't something I was too concentrated on, that really kind of put my feet to the fire, so to speak, money where your mouth is, and saying, "Hey, if I do what I'm saying I'm going to do here, would you refer me to your friends and family?" I've kind of always done that, but not concentrated on it knowing that that could equal more. I mean, if you can do what you say you can do here, we'll do it. I have confidence, obviously that we can, so that is definitely helped grow it.
Dean: One of the things that we look at, and I don't know how you get the seller involved in the process, but one of the things that is certainly an option, is collaborating with the seller to help get introduced to the people that they may be likely to refer to you, as under this getting the house on the market situation. One of the things that I have talked about, but not formalized yet, is this idea of doing a strategy session with the seller.
It would go like this, you get the house on the market. You get all of the ... it gets on all the photos, everything is all prepared, and we start introducing the concept of the info box and the instant open house, and all of these things. The just listeds, the how we're going to get the word out, and I can imagine, coming in with the seller, with some ... almost like a war room type of thing. The satellite view of the neighborhood on an 11 by 17 paper, and you're going in, and you lay that out, and you start thinking about, "Okay. Now let's build our strategy here to really get the word out here. Here's where we're at. This is area one, is the homes that we can see from the end of the driveway. These 10 people are the ones that are most aware and sensitive to what's going on."
And going to the things and saying, "Do you know ... who do you know of these people? Let's put the names on their things, and let's send a personal note to those people," right there while you're doing it. Thinking through, let's let Bob and Sandy know that we're putting the house on the market, that here's the information, and enroll them in the process here.
So you may find out that the sellers don't ... do or don't know any of their immediate neighbors. I'm sure they do, if you think about ... I always use myself as an example in thinking through these things. If you look out your front door, and typically the neighbors within your eyesight, you generally will know them by name, because you run into them on the street, you see them when you're coming in and out, you're going to the mailbox. You're neighborly with those people. So you have a relationship with them.
That's a good thing. The sellers have that, and that's a great opportunity for us to piggyback on that relationship with the sellers, to collaboratively get involved with them. You call or you send this note to introduce yourself with them telling you that we're working with Ron, and here's this number, and they're sort of introducing you to that core group of people.
If you zone out to the neighborhood, the hundred homes, or whatever the immediate thing would be, who do they know that live in that area that we could do that same type of thing? Enrolling their things. Then, if you're overlaying your list, your pins, you're saying, "Okay, and I know these people, and these people, and these people." So you're collectively now on the same team, building your strategy for that, with the ground game right there in the neighborhood.
Now you zone out to the town where you are, and you start to think from the seller's standpoint, who do they know locally? So you start to think about let's get the word out in their Facebook group. So you start to think maybe you film a little video with them by the for sale sign and say, "Surprise, we're selling our house, and just wanted you to know. We wanted you to see it here before you start hearing about it. Here's what it is. Here's our ... this is our real estate agent, Ron. He's set up a special website for all the info about our site. Here it is." That, on their Facebook page is the kind of thing that would be a great way to now get access to their top 150, or their Facebook friends, know who you are now, and they know that their friends, Bob and Sandy are selling their house and they can go to 22 Graystone to sell it.
And then you say, "I'm going to post up the next post that we put up will be just about the house, if you know someone, please like it or share it."
Ron: Oh man.
Dean: That kind of thing, that you could do in one session there, and then you're showing them where, you're picking the areas where you're going to send the just sold ... or the just listed cards. And showing them the info box flyer that you're going to put up and the Facebook ad that you're going to run. All of that stuff is ... they feel like, "Wow, we're really involved in this," and that's how you can get that seller involvement.
Ron: I'm grinning ear to ear, as I'm thinking about this. I've got this mental movie going through my mind right now.
Dean: Yeah.
Ron: My brother's an architect, so having these giant rolls of-
Dean: Right, you know what I'm talking about.
Ron: Roll that out with the thing. It's so-
Dean: They're going to feel great. And that little 30 minutes that you could spend with them, and then doing it right there. And then you put ... they give them, on their cell phone, a digital version of the property PDF that you create. And then instructing them that ... telling them about the reticular activator, and that you're going to notice now, just like pregnant mothers notice other pregnant mothers, or people who get their new car realize everybody else got their new car today too. Now that you've got your house on the market you're going to hear, everybody's talking about real estate, and if you hear someone talking about it, or you're out and about, here's a PDF that you can text to somebody or air drop to them right there. You're getting them equipped to pay attention and get involved. Part of the joy of this is that when you do your weekly update on what's going on with people, you say to them, "Here's the update. Here's what's happened. We had this many showings, this much, this was the feedback we got, we've got this scheduled, we had," whatever the stats are. Whatever you're going to report to do the facts for what's happened this week, you can, as soon as you're reporting your thing, then you say to them, "And how did you do?"
And then you be quiet. And they go, "What do you mean, how did we do?" "Well, did you hear anybody talking about? Were you able to hand out any of the info box flyers? Did you put one up at work?" All that kind of thing. Then there like, "Oh yeah. We did this and this." It's amazing how that vacuum gets filled with activity in the future. So now, when you have that conversation next week, "Here's what happened this week. Here's the stuff. Here's how many showings. This is what we had. This was the feedback we got. And, how'd you do?"
"Well, we saw Sally in accounting was saying that her ..." you know? They're aware of it now. And they're looking for their contribution to the whole thing.
Ron: That is fantastic. You're right about the reticular activator. That was one of the ways that I was able to raise that, too was asking ... not asking for the referral, but just allowing them to understand that you're going to hear people as you're going through this process, that are thinking about selling. You're just hyper aware of it, because after the sale, they're going to be thinking about furniture and layouts and they're going to have moved on. Oh fantastic. I love this. That mental movie that's going through my mind right now is laying this out and ... this is awesome.
Dean: It's pretty exciting, you know? That that's kind of a cool thing. That could really help the seller assisted lead or referral or something happened because of that level of involvement with the seller. It goes a long way, you know?
Ron: Oh, absolutely. And they know that you're doing something every week, too. Because a lot of sellers think, "What is this agent even doing?" A lot of times we're not very good about communicating those things.
Dean: Yeah. That's right.
Ron: Oh, fantastic.
Dean: That gives you a nice track to run on, that every week you've got the seller update, this is what happened. And if you go through the facts, these are the facts. We had this many showings. We had this much ... this was the feedback, you go through the checklist of things, and here's what we got lined up for next week. And how did you do?
Ron: Oh, fantastic.
Dean: I like that. That's a good opportunity there.
Ron: Oh, that's awesome.
Dean: So good. You've got access to the wide format printing. That's important to the seller, with the satellite view of their neighborhood, with the 2D tilt to it, or the 3D tilt to it, so you could ... looking down on ... you could see the homes, zoomed into the 10 homes right around theirs, with little labels on the things, that's Bob and Suzi, and that's Nancy and John, which ones they know, so that you can send a little hand written note that you write, right there while you're at the strategy session with them.
Ron: Oh absolutely and create a whole process around that, too. So that you come prepared with those letters.
Dean: Yes, yes.
Ron: Oh, fantastic.
Dean: I like it. That'll be a cool thing. I'm going to do a session on that in Orlando when we do the academy this year, so that'll be a cool thing if you do the wide format stuff, that'll be a cool thing to share. Are you going to be able to come this year? Or if you're not-
Ron: Yep.
Dean: Oh you are? Okay.
Ron: I'm going to go ahead and I've got two listing appointments at the end of next week, after the holiday here, and I'm thinking I'll have my brothers printout on one of those wide pieces of paper and have something to share in February. I'll put some implementation over the next couple of months here.
Dean: I love it. That's awesome. That's cool. I love to hear these updates. It's amazing. See what can happen and we're only talking about two of the Listing Agent Lifestyle elements right now, that you've focused on. We didn't even talk about the finding buyers and converting leads and orchestrating referrals. I mean, we did talk about the orchestrating referrals with the Market Maker stuff, but we didn't talk about all the other things.
Ron: Oh absolutely and the finding buyers, I've noticed with just having the listings and then again, all of this layers so beautifully into each other with the listing multiplier index.
Dean: Yeah.
Ron: Generating the buyers from the info box flyers. And generating them from the Facebook ads. It starts to spin off. I've noticed that I don't really have to do anything specifically to find buyers as the listings themselves just generate them if you implement all of these different strategies.
Dean: Yes, that's exactly right. They all layer on top of each other. And it all multiplies. That's what's the coolest thing.
Ron: One thing I wanted to ask you Dean, I had mentioned ... I think it was a couple podcasts ago, about your idea around a brand, because one thing that I just don't do, is I don't do really any branding, unless I've generated the prospect and maybe do some ... helping people on the move and so an and so forth. But it's all direct response marketing, and I wanted to tap your brain on that a little bit.
Dean: Okay. My thing, I've been ... I've never heard a definition of brand that really was satisfying, and it came to me that I've been focused a lot on the conversion and understanding the dynamics of how people make choices, and when they make those choices. I've come to realize that there's only two time frames. It's now or not now. That's really all that matters. The only time somebody is making a decision is now. What we really want to do, is we want to establish a brand, and establish is the right word. We want to embed it in their mind.
A brand, as an acronym for a Buying Reflex Affecting Now Decisions. That's what a brand is, right? In my definition of it, that you want to focus on establishing in the minds of individual people, that when the decision is ready to choose an agent, that their buying reflex is you. Now, you talk about the guy that you did the Market Maker activity with, you sent out the thing. He wasn't ready right then, but then he came back to you later, and said, "It seems like you work with a lot of buyers. We need to get our house on the market," in that moment what you did was, you established a buying reflex in his mind, that you made the impression that Ron has buyers. That's the brand that you want to establish in somebody's mind. Not Ron wants me to list my house. Or not Ron is chasing me. Or Ron hounds me. It's not that.
Because if you were calling people going, "Hey, it's Ron. Just checking in. How's everything going? Are you getting the newsletter? Are you enjoying it? Is there anything I can do for you?" All of those things where you're really saying, "Are you ready to list your house right now?"
That's what the real thing. Your sock puppet is speaking to their sock puppet and saying, "Hey, just checking in. Is everything okay? Are you getting the newsletter?" "Oh yeah. We really love it. Yep, we read it all the time."
That whole thing, but in the back of your mind, you're really saying, "Are you ready to list your house right now?" And the back of the other end of their sock puppet, their mind is saying, "Oh boy, here he is hounding me again."
But when you call and you're saying, "I've got a buyer who's ready to look at homes this week of the one, and I thought I'd check in and see what your plans are, because it sounds like your house might be a perfect match." The person is saying, "Well, I'm not ready right now," but you've made the impression that Ron has buyers. So now, he thanks you, and says, "Oh no. We're not ready yet," but you made that impression, so that now when it is now, six months later, that it is now, their first thought is, "Well, I should check with Ron, because maybe he's got another buyer."
Ron: Oh, that's fantastic. Because I've looked at a lot of the follow up programs in some of these systems, and they're like that, "Hey just checking in. Are you ready yet? Are you ready yet? Are you ready yet?" And I personally am annoyed by that kind of follow up.
Dean: We all are.
Ron: Yeah, we all are.
Dean: Nobody likes to make those calls. And nobody likes to get those calls. It's just the ... you make comfort that it's purely numbers in that that randomly you're going to hit on a time when somebody is ready. But it's not because of anything you did. You're not going to spur somebody into being ready. I think being patient and being the provider of what they really want. They don't want to list their house, they want to sell their house, you know?
Ron: Yeah.
Dean: So, before they go to list with anybody, let's check with Ron, first of all, you're providing them information every month for three years. You're staying in better contact with them than their incumbent realtor.
Ron: Yes.
Dean: It's interesting, right?
Ron: It really is. It really is, because one thing that I ... I've heard those words. Anytime that I get a listing or a sale, I often ask, "Why did you choose me?" And -.
Dean: You stayed in touch.
Ron: Consistency, patient, didn't bother me. You weren't hounding me. I've heard those words before.
Dean: Yes.
Ron: And how interesting.
Dean: But you established that by reflex. That, "We're going to put our house on the market. Let's check with Ron. We got to give Ron a shot." Or "Ron's going to be the guy." Or "Maybe Ron has a buyer." And you're not doing ut as a slogan, that Ron has buyers, you're doing it by demonstration.
Ron: By demonstration, okay.
Dean: But their experience of it is that Ron has buyers. Because you're helping, you're showing them every month, helping people on the move, you're putting in your match makers, you're putting in every time you're reaching out to them by email. You've got it all, you know?
Ron: Exactly. And interestingly enough, when I ... the more that I've done this, obviously sending out these messages, the more responses I'm getting each and every month. And a lot of them are no. "We're not ready quite right now." Or, "We haven't heard anybody," but it doesn't feel like rejection to me nor them, and it's just a completely different style of communication yet the words are the same, which is interesting when they come back if they say no. I don't feel any rejection of that, I just say, "Okay." It's not yet. Or they haven't heard anybody. But it's always very pleasant. Interesting.
Dean: Yes. That's it.
Ron: So I love it.
Dean: Buying reflex.
Ron: Okay, cool
Dean: Yep. That's it, a Buying Reflex Affecting Now Decisions. That's what Coca Cola has done better than anybody in the beverage category, is when somebody says, "What would you like to drink?" "What would I like to drink, quick, got to make a decision, Coke. I'll have a Coke."
Ron: Yeah.
Dean: Right. And that, to some extent, they've done it the largest globally, but if you go to Poughkeepsie, New York, there may be a microbrewery in Poughkeepsie that creates this amazing pale ale that you walk in anywhere in Poughkeepsie, and somebody's going to go, "I'll have a Poughkeepsie pale ale." But nobody's going to order that in Albuquerque because they've never ... that brand has not been established in their mind, in Albuquerque.
Ron: How interesting. Yeah, we've got, in Wisconsin, we've got a few breweries around here, microbreweries, that have really become the staple of the area. I've heard people when they travel out of the area, "Oh, they didn't have this brew," and they're almost disappointed, even though they know that it wouldn't be there, they become so attached to that brand.
Dean: Isn't Schlitz from Milwaukee? Or Old Milwaukee is from Wisconsin, right?
Ron: Miller, I think is from the area, too. Yep.
Dean: There you go. Well, I always enjoy talking to you, Ron.
Ron: You as well.
Dean: This has been delightful. Nice to come full circle back to episode three and see everything is still on track. You know what's fun? Is that we start to see now, I've been talking with some of the people, some of the newer people who are joining us in Go Go Agent, and the thing that kind of spurs them on is when we do an update with somebody that they've been listening to the podcast longer than when that person joined in and got the results that they've been getting, and it makes them go, "Oh, that could have been me." And that's what I'm saying. I think that's the absolute truth, that we've heard it, now if they've been listening to the podcast since the beginning, and they heard you talking about this and now here we are, three years later, or two years later, and you're still going strong, that's big encouragement.
Ron: Absolutely. Just knowing that stay consistent, that's really where it is, too. I've learned that throughout my own life, that the consistency creates trust. It creates recognition. It creates this bond almost. I couldn't imagine ... I remember the story with Kenny McCarthy and talking with him at one of the academies, if I were to stop the monthly mailers, so many people would be like, "Wait. Stop. I need those."
Dean: Right. Yes. That's funny, and it's true, you know? But that's fantastic.
Ron: This has been fantastic, Dean.
Dean:
Yeah. I'm looking forward to seeing you in February. That'll be fun.
Ron: Perfect. I'll have an update on the seller strategy session too, -.
Dean: Perfect.
Ron: - can get one of those maps, because I can see myself doing that, and laying this out. I'm pretty enthusiastic already. Oh, this is going to be fun, I'll have some -.
Dean: I love it. Awesome. Okay, well thank you so much. I will talk to you again soon.
Ron: You too, Dean.
Dean: See yeah.
Ron: Okay. Bye.
Dean: And there we have it. Another great episode, and if you'd like to continue the conversation, you can go to ListingAgentLifestyle.com. You can download a copy of the Listing Agent Lifestyle book, the manifesto that shares everything that we're talking about here, and you can be a guest on the show if you'd like to talk about how we can build a Listing Agent Lifestyle plan for your business. Just click on the Be a Guest link at ListingAgentLifestyle.com, and then if you'd like to join our community of people who are applying all of the things we talk about in the Listing Agent Lifestyle, come on over to GoGoAgent.com. It's where we got all the programs, all the tools, everything you need to get listings, to multiply your listings, to get referrals, convert leads, and to find buyers. You can get a free, truly free, no credit card required, trial for 30 days at GoGoAgent.com. So come on over and we'll see you there.