Today on the Listing Agent Lifestyle podcast, I've got a really interesting conversation with my good friend, Joe Polish.
Joe and I host the I love marketing podcast. We've done that now for about 10 years, but I've known Joe for about 25 years, and someone pointed out to me recently this interview I'd recoded with Joe many years ago for his genius network interview series.
This was a great conversation about lifestyle and lifestyle design, and one of the things, as you know, with our Listing Agent Lifestyle model is about combining your business while building an amazing lifestyle. So, listening to this brought back memories of some of the formative thoughts that went into the evolution of what turned into the Listing Agent Lifestyle.
I think as the summer progresses, and we're thinking about our lifestyle as we coming back from being in quarantine, there's a lot of opportunities to reevaluate our lifestyles and to evaluate what we determined is the success of our lifestyle, so this is a perfect time to think about these thoughts, and this conversation is a great catalyst for you.
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Transcript: Listing Agent Lifestyle Ep121
Joe: Hello. This is Joe, founder of Genius Network interview series and I've got a very good friend of mine on the line Mr. Dean. You're in California I think right now, right Dean?
Dean: Spring right now, that's right.
Joe: I've interviewed you before for my Genius Network interview series, and this is going to be a different sort of interview. And this interview is actually going to be recorded predominantly for my coaching club members, my platinum plus members and people that are part of my high end exclusive brainstorm groups.
And so the people that are going to be listening to this interview are in one of my coaching groups ranging on the low end $5,000 a year to on the high end $25,000 a year, which is what I charge for these groups at the time of the recording of this interview. And if this interview happens to land its way into the hands of anyone else, then I'm sure you're still going to find it enormously valuable.
Well, first off, thank you for taking the time on short notice to do this interview with me. I know I called you up just yesterday and said, Dean, I'd like to really talk to you about a couple of areas of business that I think you just have such an enormous insight for. And in your world, I'm just going to give the listeners a little bit of background on my relationship with you and how I got to meet you and knowing you all these years.
It's been probably going on about a decade that I've known you, and I met you through by referral only. You've worked with Joe Stump and Terry Hunter Feld for many years and our good friend, Evan Pagan and Richard Miller. And it's kind of a Motley crew of individuals that we all know, and so I met you in the direct response marketing world, and you are absolutely an expert at writing copy, at direct response, teaching realtors.
You've taught thousands of different people but I know predominantly your niche has been a real estate agents for many years. One of your website is www.stopyourdivorce.com, where you actually have helped tens of thousands of people, men and women that were in the stages of divorce actually reverse that if they really want to and what needs to be done with that.
So if anyone ever wants to look at that subject matter, stopyourdivorce.com has been completely put together by Dean. Very smart model that you've done and I know you've helped a lot of people with that. And your background is really marketing and you invented the concept that I refer to all the time as before, during and after, which is all the different stages of a business relationship with a client, with a prospect, what to do before the sale, what to do during the sale, what to do after the sale.
And so your background is very heavy in direct response marketing and you really are one of the top direct marketers in the country. Now that's not why I wanted to interview you today, though. What I really wanted to interview you on was the subject of focus and goals and success.
And so before I get into those sort of questions, could you maybe give us some nail sketch of anything that you'd like the listeners to know about you that would help them have a better understanding of who you are that I did not mention of course?
Dean: Sure. My background's in marketing, but I started out as a real estate agent and that's where I got to apply all of my marketing knowledge. I started out like most people who get into direct marketing in some kind of a sales business, so I've had experiences ranging from making a hundred cold calls a day when I was starting out in my real estate career, and then discovering the ultimate leverage of using direct response.
Where, as soon as I discovered that, and I was able to figure out that I could put words on paper that would get people to call me instead of me calling out to them, it was just life changing. So that's really been what I've gone very deep in on all my study in my life here and applying that to make my life better.
Joe: And yeah, I mean, you're really, really good at it. And you've spoken a couple of times at my events when I've asked you to. You've begrudgingly agreed to do it, probably more so out of friendship than anything else because you're definitely not someone that ever has ever striked me as really even caring about being famous or any of that stuff.
And you make a lot of money and you make a lot of money in I would say very easy ways. It's probably not easy in what it required for you to learn all of these robotic processes and just developing the business that you have today. It's become easier for you now, and I say this because I've hung out with you enough.
I've known you over all these years, and recently you spent half the year in Winter Haven, Florida. That's where your house in Florida is, right? Winter Haven.
Dean: Yeah.
Joe: And then half the year in Toronto and with your wife Sony, who is ... Sorry, I guess her nickname would be Sony. That's what we all call her. But Sonia is that her official name?
Dean: That's right, yeah.
Joe: That's her birth name, official name. But last time I was up in Toronto, we're driving around in your nice little Mercedes convertible that one of our business associate friends of ours gave you as a gift because you taught him so much about marketing that he's made literally millions of dollars based on an idea that you gave him several years ago.
And while we were driving around, I was like Dean, show me what you do. How do you do all this stuff? Because what I want the listeners to know is that you are a guy from, I can just tell you, I know this from knowing you and for the experience and hanging out with you, you're really pretty much the kind of lazy now. And you like playing golf. You really enjoy playing golf. You play golf, I guess, on a good week for four days a week or so.
Dean:Yeah, probably at least three or four times a week I like to play.
Joe: And you go where you want to go, when you want to go. You work when you want to work. You make very large sums of money for very little amounts of work. And so you've built a business that Michael Gerber writes about in the EMS that has systems and you're just a very leveraged guy.
And so the reason I wanted to do the interview is to kind of convey to all my listeners and my coaching members especially, how do you do what it is you do and share some of the processes so that the listeners can do it also? And a couple of things I want to focus on is goal setting, and you have this analogy called golf that I'd like to have you talk to that subject first.
And then I want to ask you about this amazing process called I know I'm being successful when, and this is a list of characteristics that you develop of you know you're being successful when you follow these. And you took me through this process last time I was in Toronto and I want on this audio recording to take all of my coaching club members through this particular list so that they can learn how to develop this for themselves.
Because you are an individual, and I know literally hundreds of highly successful entrepreneurs, many of them including myself, and I'll be very transparent on this interview. I'll actually talk about dysfunctional sides of my behavior and how I get seduced by opportunities and all of that stuff more so, because it's funny.
And secondly, I wanted it to be instructional for our listeners because you are a guy that just like me has a deal after deal, opportunity after opportunity propose to you on a weekly and probably even daily basis. Someone's saying, hey, look at this. Here's a great way to make money. This is really cool, let's get involved in this.
And you are probably out of five people that I know in the world. You are on the top five list of people I know that just flat out, do not get seduced by opportunities. You're very methodical about how you want your life to be, what you want to spend your time on. And I think you have a great ability of teaching this to other people and so that's what I wanted to talk about.
First off, I mean, why do you not get seduced by opportunities? Is this brain chemistry, or is this something you have taught yourself over the years? Because me, I'm like a kid in a candy store when it comes to how many books can I read, seminars to attend different projects to get involved in. I mean, you know the drill inside out. Talk about that.
Dean: If we're going to talk about that first, then we'll change up the order and we'll talk about I know I'm being successful first because that will be really be helpful once we talk about golf to have an understanding of how that applies. Part of it is really knowing what you want, being crystal clear on what it is that your life is going to be about.
There's no end to the seduction of constantly doing more and more and more and acquisition, and doing all these things. As entrepreneurs, we're all quick starts, we all love new ideas. We all love to get involved in things, and we all think that we're Superman and that we can implement as fast as we can think. It's easy to think up ideas.
It's easy to know what to do, but once you start actually applying it, you realize how much time it takes and how much complexity it creates in your life. So one of the benefits of being an entrepreneur is there's no hint, there's no limit. Nobody's telling you, well, this is how many hours you can work or this is how much money you can make, or this is how many opportunities you can get involved in.
You literally have an unlimited opportunity to do anything you want, make as much money as you want and get involved in as many projects as you want. But what ultimately that in my observation leads to is this never ending cycle of constantly doing more and more and more without really looking at where is the finish line or is there a finish line?
And so when I look at it, what really is most important to me is my life, is having a great life. And I always like to talk about it in terms of having a perfect life. If you're going to aspire, you might as well aspire to perfection. So I really spend a lot of time and I have spent a lot of time in the past idealizing, what is it exactly that I want?
So we chase success and we keep running after it, and like Dan Sullivan, our friend talks about is that it's constantly a moving horizon. You move, you keep moving towards it, but you never seem to reach it. There's always something more to aspire to because as you get closer to the Vista changes. So only in looking back, are you able to see the progress that you've made, but at some point, is there opportunity for you to say I've made it,, I'm successful?
The success have to be constantly out in front of you. And so when I started looking at it, I started thinking about, well, what would successful mean to me? And at the time when I wrote these, some of these were aspirational where I didn't have these in my life, but they're all written in a way that I will know that I've got it.
That's why the phrase that I start out with is I know I'm being successful when, and it's all written in the present tense. I know now that I'm being successful when. It's not, I will be successful later on or this is my aspiration. It's in the present tense. If I look at these things and I've got 10 of them. I've got a top 10 list of ways that I know I'm being successful. You want me to share some of those with you?
Joe: Yeah, actually I would and what I'll do also just for entertainment purposes for our listeners, I'll share some of mine that I have. You actually took me through this whole process. We spent several hours on this and what I want the listeners to really think about when you say these is, this is what works for you. Dean has never been a person that I've ever seen tell anyone how to live their life.
It's like this is his life, this is how he ... See the whole subject, Dean, of success before you get into the list, the whole subject of success, I think, is very confusing to people, especially when they try to adopt other people's value systems. There's so many self help books and so many "gurus" and directions and ways that people call success.
And there's so many books with the term success in the title. And I think the only real measurement of true success is how you define it. You know what I mean? Who am I to tell someone what is successful? They may be successful for me, but it may not be successful for someone else. And in this society, so much of success is based on just financial success.
I mean, well, yeah, you can have millions of dollars, but every other area of your life is a complete train wreck. Your health is shot. You have no friends. I mean, is that person really, really successful? So as everyone listens to your list, I want them to see it as an example, but also realize that when you create your own list, which we're going to take you through, I'd like you to think about what is success to you mean?
And that's what is so critical about what you said, I know I'm being successful when, and what I like in that title is the term being successful. Not, I know I'm successful when I know I'm being successful because there are times where when I go through and do the things that cause me to be successful based on my terms, I'm being successful.
And then when I'm not doing these things, I'm not being successful. So it's not like I'm always successful or not successful. There are times when I'm on track that my life just works at an optimal level. So let's hear your list.
Dean: Okay. Number one on my list is that I can wake up every day and ask, what would I like to do today? That's number one for me. So I know I'm being successful when I can wake up every day and ask, what would I like to do today? Because that's ultimately part of the reason that most people are attracted to being entrepreneurs, is having time freedom.
That's the big goal that we're all striving for when we want to work for ourselves as opposed to work for somebody else. So knowing that if I can wake up every day and ask, what would I like to do today? That's going to be the start of a good day. And so I really look at the opportunities that I'm faced with, and you asked how do I avoid being seduced into opportunities, is I put them through this whole filter here.
Is taking advantage of this opportunity, is it going to move me closer to my definition of success or is it moving me further away? Is it going to compromise my definition of success?
Joe: Do you ever pull all nighters and wake up at night and say, what would I like to do tonight?
Dean: You just blew my mind.
Joe: Yeah, there you go. Something to think about.
Dean: So my next one is my passive revenue exceeds my lifestyle needs. So I know I'm being successful when my passive revenue exceeds my lifestyle needs one of the first aspirations that I have because when I first started writing this, that wasn't true. But if I got to a point where I have enough revenue coming in passively that I can wake up every day and ask, what would I like to do today?
When you get to that stage, then it's a freedom experience where you really can now design every day to be exactly like you would like. And there's a difference between the freedom of knowing that my passive revenue exceeds my lifestyle needs rather than knowing that my lifestyle requires me to continue to work so that I can pay for my lifestyle.
A lot of times what we do in aspiring to success is look at it as an external thing and accumulating the trappings of success that I know I'll be successful when I drive a Mercedes and have two houses and split my time. And all these things that could be aspirational, things that you might do first, but then get trapped into now I've got to continually work even harder to pay for all of these things.
So when I was looking at this, I made a decision to live below my means and lead with revenue rather than lead with lifestyle and then hope to make revenue to pay for it.
Joe: And now you're in a situation where you basically have what it is you want and it just works for you, and that's the key. I mean, I guess the real way to gauge it is, is my life working or is it not working? And not that it works all the time and not that it doesn't not work all the time.
It's just having a heck of a lot more moments of working than not working and not literally building a prison with golden bars around you, because you're just enslaved by ... When we know a lot of people in that situation, their income increases, their debt increases to keep up with their increase in revenue and they never really get out of-
Dean: Hands on their time increase too keep up with that revenue.
Joe: Yeah, and that's a very stressful place to be in. So you said something real key too, is that when I first wrote this, that wasn't the situation I was in and I realized that there's going to be a lot of people listening to this, that you are going to create things that allow you to be a filter for, you know, you're being successful when that you may not currently have in your life.
However, it's certainly something to aspire and develop, and the more you get clear on it, which is the key thing that in spite of all my babbling at the beginning of this interview and people going well, when are you going to land the plane, Joe? The reason I talk about this is I just want to reiterate, even if it sounds redundant, just some of your points, clarity is what you're all about.
You are a very clear guy because you spent a lot of time thinking about your life and how you want it to look.
Dean: Yeah. Well, I mean, I created this list nearly 10 years ago and it was out of that thinking about what would my ideal life style look like? What is my life going to be about? And how will I know when I get there? That's the kind of thing because if you don't set the finish line or set the goal of where you're headed, then you're always going to be chasing it further and further out.
Joe: Yeah, and that is how I believe most entrepreneurs that I encounter, I don't know about you, most entrepreneurs that I encounter, that's exactly how they live their life. And I have really worked hard in my own life to develop that sort of structure.
And that's why I'm interviewing you because people like you are good models for me, because I am a very kind of all over the place, distractable high entrepreneurial ADD sort of individual. And I really need that sort of structure to bring me back. And you mentioned Dan Sullivan and I'll mention him too, because it seems I always mention Dan when I'm talking about subjects like this. He's one of the other individuals that's on my list that lives this way.
And even, when I was up in Toronto, we went and had dinner with Dan and Babs, his wife and Richard Rossi, who is also a very good friend of mine and a very good friend of yours. He's another one of the individuals of those, you, Richard and Dan, all of who I've interviewed before, are great models of this sort of structure.
Be very clear, not being seduced by opportunities and having what is a myth to most people, which is a balanced life. So what's your third one.
Dean: I can live anywhere in the world I choose. For me, that meant I didn't want to get tied down to a locally oriented business, because my lifestyle is again, splitting our time between Florida and Toronto. That precludes me from getting involved in starting a local business that requires me to be in one place at any time.
So looking at that, I can live anywhere in the world I choose. Again, when you look at all these it's set up as a filter for me to run opportunities through, if I get involved in this opportunity, is this a local thing? Is this something that's going to require me to be anywhere specific?
Joe: Yeah, no, that's great. That is great. And you do, you pretty much live where you want most of the time.
Dean: That's it. And then my fourth one is that I'm working on projects that excite me and allow me to do my very best work, my unique ability work, if you want to put it like that, that ... So it's not about not working. It's about having the freedom to choose what it is that I work on. Things that I'm excited about.
Things that if I want to chase whims or, or focus all my attention on one thing, that I'm working on projects that excite me and that I'm only working in my unique ability. It never feels like work, The things that I'm doing,
Joe: Okay, Keep on going.
Dean: And then my fifth one is I can disappear for several weeks with no effect on my income, that I could disappear for several months with no effect on my income. That freedom that again, it's not a time related thing where you're not trading time for money, that you're creating results and the results are going to continue to work even if you are not.
Joe: Well, you disappeared literally on a weekly basis in terms of comparative. No, I mean, comparative to the typical workforce out there. I mean, on average, what would you say is the amount of time you work per week? I mean really work.
Dean: Yeah, that'd be hard to say. I mean, maybe if I could get 10 focused hours a week on something, that'd be a pretty good week.
Joe: That's a heavy workload for you.
Dean: Yeah.
Joe: Okay. I mean, this sounds completely crazy for most people and again, you'll just ... The more someone knows me that's listening to this the better. I mean, I can assure you that most people that are out there preaching like all these wonderful lifestyles of a business owner and make millions of dollars and work part time, and most of that is a complete and utter joke.
When people actually propose it, you are one of the few people that literally ... I mean, you can have clients of yours that you've taught things that they've taken your concepts and just decided to put in much more hours than you do that. They have built multimillion dollar businesses.
Dean: Right, exactly.
Joe: It's just for you. This is just not what you ... It doesn't flow your boat and you're very happy doing what you do and you really don't work a lot. And I would have to say this irritates the heck out of me too nonetheless. I work more than you do. I work more than 10 hours a week, but the point is a lot of this is by design and by choice and that is the key though, is that it is by choice. You're not-
Dean: But just one of yours you're working on, is when we were doing yours together, one of yours was I'm working on projects that excite me and allow me to do my best work, wasn't it?
Joe: Exactly, yes, it was. And also another one that I ... Because I said, as I was going through it with you. I was my passive income exceeds lifestyle needs. I mean, that works for me and that was one of mine also. So yeah, there's definitely things that just resonate and work identically for me as they would for you.
And then I have different ones, of course, which I'll share but being able to disappear like our friend, Richard Rossi. I mean, at the time that I'm doing this recording, he is on a one year vacation with his family and he checks into the United States 10 days every quarter.
And so he actually will spend 40 days in a 365 day period actually coming back to United States and just checking in and making sure the house is in order, making sure that his $75 million a year company with 200 employees is working. But it really does. I mean, his company continues to work and grow.
He's not even there, and he's part of my $25,000 a year coaching group and he will be listening to this interview. And the point is that that is something that it took him 20 years to develop his business to the level of where it's at right now.
But the point is it never would have gotten there had he not been thinking about this and developing his skill set all throughout his years as an entrepreneur. And that's really the goal and objective that I want for people listening here is that when you're done here, I don't want anyone to say, well, God, my life isn't like that at all.
The point is Dean has worked really, really hard for what he has. He got there though, because he constantly thought about what is important to him and got clear and built a lifestyle and a business that works, and every single person has that same opportunity available to them if they're willing to follow elite. Okay, what's next one?
Dean: Number six for me is that there are no whiny people in my life. And there's the thing is that a lot of times, if you're going to do or get involved in projects that involve other people, sometimes it can be a hassle and there's whiny people. I don't have time for that. I don't want anything to do with that. That's one of my things is there are no whiny people in my life. I just don't have time for it.
Joe: Yeah, and whiny people are annoying.
Dean: That's exactly.
Joe: Dan Sullivan refers to battery drainers versus battery chargers, and Brian Standish, my CEO, he says some people are a drain, some other sort of fountain. Yeah, there's this all kinds of ways to look at ... To describe them, but one of the best ways to improve your life is to eliminate all the toxic and negative people out of it. And then all of a sudden, it just frees you up in so many ways. Okay, number seven.
Dean: Okay, number seven for me is that I wear my watch for curiosity only that, and that ... You say these things like I know I'm being successful when I wear my watch for curiosity only just to know that the essence of that, what's really behind that is that I don't want to get into something where I've just got constant time obligations and things where I've got to be rushing around to get to appointments or trying to really make sure my day really works.
That if one thing goes off track, I've got to be constantly aware of the clock. That's not what I want for my life. I don't do my best work like that. So the best thing for me is when I'm at my very best, I know I'm successful when I'm wearing my watch for curiosity only.
And you probably know that yourself, and if you're working on a project or if you're getting something done, it's just so much better for you if you can be working and get in flow with something and not be constantly looking oh, I've got to rush off and get going.
Joe: Right. I mean, you really take this to the upkeep level though because when I was ... I stayed at your house for two nights when I was, I think it might've been longer, when I was in Toronto. And I asked you in the guest bedroom, you I said, Dean, do you have an alarm clock? And you're like I don't. And I was like, I'm thinking you really, you got to be kidding.
I was like, you don't have an alarm clock and you have ... Well, how do you and your wife get up? What about when you have appointments? You're like, we just wake up. And I was like, please, you got to have an alarm clock. You got clocks, but you have no clocks at your house that has an alarm device attached to it.
And I'm going, this is the most freaking hysterical thing that I've ever seen in my life. I mean, it's really true. You wake up whatever the heck you want and you only wear your watch for curiosity only. When I first heard your list, I'm thinking this is ... And this was several years ago when I first saw your list. I thought, man, I can't imagine living like this.
And after these years many of these things that I've wanted have actually become a reality and the other ones are becoming more of that every day. And it's solely because of the focus on them, which is what we're doing and the purpose of this interview. All right, number eight.
Dean: Number eight is that I have no time obligations or deadlines. You might look at that and say, well, you come out and you speak at these main events and that's a time obligation and that's true. So I have a time obligation for three days a month. Now, aside from that, if I'm not out speaking at a main event here, I really don't have any other time obligations or deadlines of when something has to be done.
Joe: Okay, so let me just give some context in case someone doesn't know what a main event is. You've been doing this for many years and you come out for three days a month for just by referral, only that you work with them as a consultant and you help them design their whole program, their multimillion dollar coaching and training organization for the real estate industry. And you only speak what? A couple hours during these three days or whatever.
Dean: Exactly. Yeah, I probably do five hours over the three days. I speak a little bit each day.
Joe: Little. Okay, good. And so you do that once a month. You've been doing that for God knows how long.
Dean: Yeah, 10 years or more.
Joe: And that's probably the only thing that you've really got in your life that requires you to have to be anywhere.
Dean: That's exactly right.
Joe: Which I think is of course funny, but okay.
Dean: But again, you know what, and I justify that with saying that I'm working on projects that excite me and allow me to do my best work. It's enjoyable. I like it, and I get to add on to some of these trips. Like here, I'm coming Palm Springs, we're going to go out and I'll be seeing you this weekend in San Diego.
So it's kind of nice. I have some variety, get to travel a little bit. We go to great places. I like the people that I see out here and I like to teach, be a part of society for a little bit, for three days.
Joe: Yeah. Actually, I mean, I wish you ... Really you are truly just such a bright guy. And so yeah, any time that you can share what it is you do with the world all the better. So now let me ask you something about I have no time obligations or deadlines.
In the context for someone listening because there's a lot of people whose businesses, including many of my coaching members that have service businesses that have appointments day in, day out. And one of the things is getting trapped in well, I've got to do everything myself and I don't have employees and people that are running my company and that I can delegate this stuff to.
I mean, there's no way that I can even ever possibly imagine living without the time obligations or deadlines. And for me, if I don't put deadlines on myself for certain projects that are important to me, you know, I just simply won't get them done. And so the deadline has been one of the most valuable inventions on the planet for me. So I want to have you talk to, in the right context, how does one use time and how does one use deadlines?
Dean: Absolutely. I'll give you a couple of examples because, and again, this is my list, right? When you say no time obligations or no deadlines, for me that's what works. I have a friend who is a mortgage broker, who's very successful, that all he does is these appointments.
He figured out that in his business, the most valuable thing that he can do is do the initial consultation, the initial interview with a new client where he sits down with them for 45 minutes and lays out what the plan will be. Then everything before that and after that is handled by team members.
So for him, his ideal scenario is knowing that on certain hours between maybe on Tuesdays and Wednesdays and Thursdays, he's got certain appointment hours and he knows that, that's when he works and that everything is going on behind the scenes to fill those slots that he has available with appointments.
And that might work for a carpet cleaner that if a carpet cleaner loves to do the actual part of the carpet cleaning, it might be that they set everything up so that they are completely focused on that their schedule is full. They wake up with their daily itinerary and they don't have to worry about that. That every appointment slot they have is full, that could work for a dentist or a doctor.
I wouldn't make a very good doctor or dentist because I know that to be successful in those things, you've got to have appointment times. You've got to have time sit in the office and that doesn't fit for me. So I look at that again, as a filter is this something that is presented to me as an opportunity going to require that I have time commitments that go with it?
Joe: Right. Well, including my top copywriter that I have here that works with me at Parana, one of his things is writing for a minimum of an hour a day. I mean, it's just part of his life and that's what makes his life and his income and everything work is that he writes for at least a minimum of one hour per day.
And so yeah, I mean, it could be ... There's all kinds of ways to spin it, but I just wanted to talk to that because I want all the listeners to really understand this, that for one, this is your list. And secondly, it's how you take this and in what context you take it, because you're not saying time or time obligations or deadlines are bad, it's just how you utilize those and how they fit into what you want your life to look like. Okay, number nine, Dean.
Dean: Number nine for me is that I wear whatever I want all the time. And what that speaks to for me is just the, again, the freedom that I'm not in a situation where I'm trying to impress somebody or influence somebody that I have to or somebody else's dictating what I wear kind of thing. I wear whatever I want all the time. That for me is just another part of that freedom.
Joe: Yap, and I can tell by the way you dress that you really do wear whatever you want all the time and I really wish you would improve that really -. I'm kidding of course. All right, so what's number 10?
Dean: And number 10 is that I can quit any project at any time. That no matter what it doesn't matter, I'm never working in something where I really need ... I don't like it, but I have to keep doing it. I avoid anything like that, where you get to where you're only working on the things that you really want to work on, facing becomes stressful or not fun or not exciting for me or something that I want to be and continue to be involved in. I know that I can quit any project at any time.
Joe: Yeah, and that's such a great filter and this list is a great filter. The last one I can quit any project at any time reminds me of Dan Sullivan's analogy of, listen, just write this down because I think it's kind of a neat way to just frame in your mind what you just said.
Dan Sullivan has this where you put an M as in mess equals, equal sign, O as an obligation minus C, which is commitment. Mess equals an obligation minus a commitment. And he talks about when you have a mess in your life, it's because you have an obligation but you're not committed to it. And it's kind of like if your marriage is a mess, you may have an obligation to the children or to whatever, but you don't have a commitment there.
So you either need to improve the commitment or somehow increase the obligation, and part of it is with clients. I mean, the way that that first made sense to me is, I have messes when I find myself doing business related things and I'm not happy with the compensation that I'm receiving. And that sometimes can simply be done by increasing the price.
People constantly give me a hard time for my consulting fees when they contact me for consulting, and I'm 20 grand today. And people are like, well, you can get other people for three grand a day or whatever.
Dean: Perfect, there's five people you can get from one.
Joe: My whole thing is, well, that's great. And for me, I'm not willing to do consulting. I don't like doing consulting enough to where I'll do it for one 20 grand a day. Am I good at it? Yeah, I think I'm pretty darn good at it and everyone that I consult with tends to make lots of money, far more than what they ever pay me.
But the point is it's a large sum of money and it's a large obligation to me though. So that I had a mess when I was half that and so I actually doubled my consulting fees literally just overnight. I went from 10 grand a day to 20 grand a day because I wanted to eliminate half the consultations that I was doing every year and still make the same amount of money and save for that sum of money.
I'd be willing to do it, but I even have more of a filter. I only wanted to do it on projects that I would only want to do consulting on if I was genuinely interested in it. Because even if someone's paying me, if I have to spend an entire day helping somebody strategize over a marketing promotion or campaign or company that really holds no interest to me, I'm not doing them any justice, because I'm not putting my all into it.
And it's basically a waste of my time even though I'm getting paid for it. So part of it is I only wanted to do things that just enhance me and then it's kind of like getting paid to get educated. And to me, that's the ultimate scenario, but that would be an example of if you're not happy with what you're getting compensated and you feel that it's a mess, either get better clients or raise your prices, or figure out how to structure it so it's no longer a mess, or eliminate the obligation entirely if you just cannot find a way to be committed to it.
All right, now I have a whole list too deep, but here's kind of how I'd like to work. Instead of me just going through what my list is, can you kind of go through, how would you recommend someone sit down and develop this list for themselves?
And then after you've gone through that, I'll share briefly some of my I know I'm being successful when, so people could just see examples that I've come up with. But I'd like you to just take our listeners through doing this for themselves. And I would say at this point, if you are driving, go through this when you're not driving, so you can actually take notes or listen to this again, go back later and do it.
But this could be and will be one of the most useful exercises that you've ever done in your entire life if you take it seriously and you devote the time to it, I can assure you of that. It has been very, very helpful to me. I've had countless conversations with Dean about this whole subject matter. This is the first time, I don't know if anyone's ever interviewed you or even done anything on this list with you before. I have no idea.
Dean: No. Actually, I did one. I did an interview with Bob Scheinfeld about this. But part of this is that all this list, these are representations of things that are kind of I know I'm being successful when statements that are sort of code for the things that you want more of or less of in your life.
So I mean, a great way to start this is to have two yellow pads or two pieces of paper and at the top have more of this and have all the things that you want more of, all the things you like about your life and on the other page, writing less of this, and having a list of all the things that you don't enjoy, or you don't want.
Those are kind of the, in terms of the activities, the things that you do, the way that you want to organize your time, the way that you want to spend your days, the kind of people that you want to be involved with, all those kinds of things in addition to looking at what ultimately your lifestyle is going to look like. Where do you want to live?
Are you happy and content to live in one place and spend all of your time there and maybe build a local business? That's great. Is it that you want to have a lifestyle that's more portable than that? Is it something that you want to be able to literally pick up and move anywhere and not have any effect on your income?
If you're building a local business, there's a lot of equity that you can build by being involved in a local community for a long period of time, but the trade off for that is that 20 years later, it's more difficult to pick up and move somewhere else in the country and have that same, that success and that level of lifestyle's not necessarily portable.
Joe: Right, so it makes sense to ... And this could be in the beginning of constant changing list. I mean, where I'm at right now with mine, I want to really narrow it down to 10 core ones. And right now, I actually have 21 on my list and I've read them dozens and dozens and dozens of times and tweak them and thought about them and everything, and it's a work in progress here.
But the point is I am in a much more clear state than I ever have been as a result of you using this as a filter. And I'm really big on filters. Just like we teach in marketing, sift sort and screen. One of my favorite tools that I actually teach to my coaching members is the not to do list because I believe that not to do list is far more important than the to do list.
Dean: I agree.
Joe: And so this kind of is used in conjunction with my not to do list for me. All right, so more of activities, people, things to be involved with lifestyle, less of what? Frustration less, it could be anything.
Dean: Yeah. When you look at it, it's like deadlines don't want that, less time commitments, no less whiny people, less having to be somewhere at a particular time, less time pressure in terms of having a really tight schedule of having constant appointments with no discretionary time.
Joe: So how long would you recommend sitting down and kind of brainstorming this out before you start constructing the list?
Dean: Yeah. I mean, I think it's an evolutionary process. I think it might take you three months to get your list to where you really are happy with it. It's not kind of thing where you're just going to kind of sit down and write it out one time. It's going to be an evolving draft, and when you start reading the words, they're going to resonate with you when you've got them right.
When you know that that's the feeling that you're looking for because ultimately success is just a feeling that you have, right? It's an internal thing rather than measuring success from an external frame of reference.
Joe: Yeah. You know what? That is so true that this really is an internal thing and so much of what we expose ourselves to in this society. And there's a lot of really good stuff out there. I mean, there really is a lot of good stuff. I respect people that are seekers of progress and betterment and how to than people that sit around and do nothing.
It's just that a lot of times you can get caught up in the trap of just pursuing all of these external things, thinking that that's going to ultimately make you happy. When in reality that you can get all kinds of materialistic items if you don't work on the inside though, it's you're still-
Dean: I think one of the most valuable things that I learned was the concept of incremental happiness, incremental gains and happiness that we've talked about this before. You find going from driving a Porsche or driving a Mercedes to going up to a Ferrari or something is probably going to be an incremental gain in happiness, as opposed to going from not having a car, to having a car, is an exponential game and happiness, because it opens up a whole new world of opportunity for you.
And so you start looking at the things like what would be ... What are the things that you have the opportunities for exponential gains and happiness? And if you just realize by the time ... And you've gone through that, gone from driving a Mazda to driving a Lexus, to driving a Porsche, to driving a Mercedes and going from the Lexus to Porsche is great. It's exciting when you get that goal because I have always wanted a Porsche.
I still have it, but getting that is exciting for the first little while. And after a couple of months, it's just the car that you drive. It's not as exciting longterm, and you see that aspirational thing, you and I both have a lot of friends that get Ferrari's and go to the next level kind of thing. But you look at it and say, you know what? I like my time freedom and stuff like that more.
Joe: Exactly. Well, Evans, I'll make sure that our friend Evan actually listens to this interview because he has a Ferrari. And I personally think we're both much happier than he is.
Dean: I do too, yeah. I know from firsthand experience, that's right.
Joe: No, that's very good. So you kind of use that to brainstorm and then anything specifically? I mean, I don't want to over-complicate the process. I mean, this really is part of just pulling out a piece of paper and thinking. I mean, we can't give you over an interview what your list is. All we can do is guide you and lead a horse to water per se, but now it's time for you to actually sit down and start developing your own list and put it in writing.
I mean, this isn't something that exists in your head. I mean, it's important to put this down on paper and go ahead and do it and then I'll go through my list here after if there's any other insights. And then I want you to talk about your golf analogy, which is fabulous.
And one other thing, because there's no structured questions that I have, this is purely just a conversation I wanted to have with you and just let it flow, is I want you to talk about tiger proof your company, because you have a real interesting story on that.
Because I thought that's fascinating how you did that, so I'd like to talk about that before we wrap up our discussion here. So anything else that you'd recommend other than someone sitting down either in front of a computer or pulling out a yellow pad?
Dean: The reality is it I think we've explained it enough that somebody could do it. There's no magic to having 10, there's no magic to having 20. It could be three. The thing about it is to think about that you're writing it from the perspective of you're at the finish line, that, I know I'm being successful when, so that it's something that you can experience in present tense.
Even if it's aspirational right now, it's that you know where you're going and when you have reached that destination.
Joe: Good, and anyone that of course is in my coaching group, we'll go through this and we will take the time and go through it literally in the meeting so that they have to write it out. So if you actually happen to have listened to this interview before you ever do this session with me live in my coaching group, then that's fine.
Because you're going to just add to it and you tweak whatever you need to tweak or just go deeper with it, because a lot of times you can make a list like this, stick it in a file somewhere or in a journal or on your computer and forget you did it. And it's one of these things that now that I've introduced this on audio that everyone that's in my coaching group is going to hear about all the time.
Okay, so my list just to share with ... I'm not going to go through every one of them. And some of them actually are personal at a point where I don't want to actually talk about them because I don't want to take the time to thoroughly explain what they mean to me. I'll just go through a few. No draining or toxic people in my life. That's one of them.
A minimal grunt work and only when I choose, so I don't mind working. I actually like working and if I had all the money in the world I don't think I'd change things all that much about work and the type of work that I do. I'd still be heavily involved in marketing because I love it.
I would still interview smart people with Genius Network. I love doing that. It's interesting. It's exciting. It stimulates my brain. So you know what I would to change as I continue to add more revenue and things is the type of work. There's no bad work and I really learned that from Dan Sullivan. There's just bad work for certain people.
And his quadrant that he uses is incompetence, competence, excellence, and uniquebility. And there are some things that I'm excellent at. However, it's kind of frustrating work for me. It doesn't flow. So minimal grunt work and I've yet to figure out how to eliminate grunt work from my life. What I have figured out how to do though, delegate a lot of things that I'm just flat out not good at to people that are much more capable than myself.
And so really minimizing grunt work. Another one is I take 150 free days a year. The free days, of course, Dan Sullivan, strategic coach concepts that I truly enjoy because there's one thing about taking time off and enjoying yourself and another taking time off, because you're trying to force yourself, but then you're sitting there twiddling your thumbs going, man, I really wish I was working.
And part of taking free time is doing it in a way to where it's really rejuvenating because if it's not rejuvenating free time, then there's a disconnect. So one of the crucial things for me is that my free days and my free time are done with things that I really enjoy. And I like normal stuff, going to the movies, exercising, reading, doing yoga, comedy clubs, hanging out with people, great discussions.
Dean: Yeah, and that's the thing, right? And all of those things, most of them are things that you can have the enjoyment of them regardless of how much money you have. It's not about rich guy things or whatever.
Joe: Oh exactly. I mean, had gone hiking. I live here in the Phoenix Valley area, going hiking Camelback Mountain is one of the coolest things on the planet and it costs nothing to do that. Another one is no aches and pains because my exercise, diet, sleep, and spiritual practice keeps me fit. I have a couple of herniated discs in my neck and my low back, and if I exercise and do lots of yoga and get proper sleep and just keep myself balanced, I don't experience pain.
When I get stressed out and I neglect any area of keeping myself in check, then I start getting pains and it's annoying. And there were times in my life where I was really overworked and overstressed, just chronic. I mean, it never went away. And I think pain is one of nature's way of saying buddy, check this out.
Something to look at and if you're going to keep driving yourself ... Some entrepreneurs, the way they take time off is they just work themselves so hard that they physically get sick. And so nature says, well, if you're not going to take time off, I'm going to make you take time off here.
How about catching a cold? How about getting this disease? How about having a break down? And so that's one of mine. Always laugh at myself in situations daily. I know I'm being successful when I never lose my sense of humor. No matter how stressful things get, don't lose my sense of humor, always laugh at myself.
I think you can gauge the value of most relationships with other people with how much you laugh with them and always want to hang out with people that are not so uptight that they cannot see the humor in almost everything. And that doesn't mean you don't ever get serious. It also means that you don't take things so serious that you're just walking around uptight all the time.
People that have no sense of humor are the worst group of people to hang out with for me. So I always laugh at myself because I'm actually kind of funny looking. So another one is I feel freedom and acceptance in my life and those that I choose to associate with. I want to hang out with people and I like hanging out with people where we just click and it just feels good.
And part of that is just an intuitive thing. It just when you're with someone there's a chemistry, there's a synergy. I don't ever get involved in business deals where my intuition or my gut says, when I've gone against that feeling I've always paid a price for it. So I think there's a lot to be said about intuition and just what you feel, and I want things to just flow.
I don't like climbing up hill to make things work, and so that works for me. And this is one that you really helped me with. I love this one. I live like an artist with a $50,000 a month trust fund. And so we were talking about what would life be like if you kind of just did what you wanted to do, but you weren't a starving artist. You actually had money.
And so I live like an artist with a $50,000 a month trust fund where the money is just always there and I just kind of do what you want to do. And so I know I'm being successful when I'm living that way. Another one is I never work on projects or with people that drain me. Very similar to yours that never worked on projects or with people ... Always work on projects that excite me to allow me to do my best work, that's yours.
So mine is I never work on projects or with people that drain me. Another one is I have an abundance of positive energy, both physically and mentally. Energy is really important, very critical. It's not just the amount of time or the thought you put into something, but it's the energy you bring to it. Another one is my home and office environments are perfect.
One of the things I recently did in my home was I moved out every sort of business related thing out of my home into my office. Some people-
Dean: That's pretty good.
Joe: Yeah, some people love working at home. I mean, I literally took all the business books out. I rarely have a computer at my house because I don't even want to think about doing anything work related. So I have a laptop that I'll occasionally bring to my home if I need to work at home or whatever rarely happens.
I don't have business stuff there and any business stuff that is ever at my house, it's all portable so I can remove it. It doesn't stay there. I do have a home office desk. There's just nothing. I can sit there and write and do whatever I want. It doesn't have to be business stuff because I do do a lot of writing that has absolutely nothing to do with business. I'm a guy that likes to journal and stuff. I mean, to me it's-
Dean: Write letters to your prison PenPal and stuff.
Joe: Of course, I really write letters to you Dean. I didn't want to mention that here on this interview though. Let's see, I never schedule appointments, take phone calls, have meetings or check email, unless I really want to. I don't like appointments. I don't like taking phone calls and I can't stand booking meetings.
And so the only ones that ... And of course email unless I want to, and it fits into something that's really important to me. Other than that, my team knows don't schedule appointments for me unless it really leads to something I want to do. I operate out of a sense of calm, not anxiety, stress, or overwhelm. How you operate and your state of mind is critical.
So I know I'm being successful when I'm operating out of a sense of calm and not stressed or overwhelmed. The other one is I encourage and inspire others through my personal and business activities. Real important to me that I encourage and inspire others. That's kind of what I'd like my business activities in my life to be about.
Another one is I pay myself first and I always look out for number one remembering that it's all about taking care of yourself first before you can take care of others. And so my next one is I spend my time working in my unique ability, strategic coach terms unique ability.
My unique ability defined is actually, this sounds kind of like a mission statement sort of, but I went through a whole unique ability exercise and so I'll just let everyone know what it is. So let me explain this, what unique ability is, is kind of what in the best possible state, what it is that I do. And I spent many hours kind of honing this down.
So my unique ability, is enthusiastically inquiring about voicing powerful ideas, possibilities, and knowledge, and then connecting people to the wisdom so they're inspired to make better decisions that will significantly impact their lives, inspire them to act and reduce their suffering so they can find peace and joy in their own existence.
That makes it sound I've got a weird list on an interview and stuff, but the point is when I really balled down and that's more of a work-related unique ability. That's why I do interviews. That's why I teach, is that I want to connect people with ideas, possibilities, and all.
It's like right now, talking to you and interviewing you, I'm just wanting to connect these ideas, this knowledge, this wisdom to people so that all of the listeners are inspired to make better decisions that will significantly impact their lives, inspire them to act and reduce their suffering, so they can find peace and joy in their own existence.
I mean, very much what we're doing today is just designed just to fit that. And so I hope that makes sense and doesn't sound too foolish for people. And then I walk my walk and talk my talk. And then my last one is I have a business that allows my current and devoted team to become wealthy as a result of their contributions and building and maintaining the organization.
Because you don't have an interest in having a big company with lots of employees and stuff. And what you're able to pull in revenue wise with a very small staff is nothing short of miraculous compared to most businesses. In my company, I mean, I have a CEO, Brian Standage and I have a very devoted team of people and we're just growing the company and it will continue to grow.
And I want to do it in a way to where all the people that helped me bake the bread are able to take part in eating it and reaching their own goals. And part of one of the things that I'm doing in the next week is everyone in my company is going to be doing a I know I'm being successful when list so that they can get better clear on what is important in their life.
And that my organization is just one of the vehicles that helps them get there. So having said that and the time we've got left, talk about this amazing analogy you have called golf, G-O-L-F.
Dean: Perfect.
Joe: Because you like playing golf and I'd like you to share this. This is really neat.
Dean: Well, one of the things, the reason that I came up with that was I started thinking that when you don't have deadlines and you don't have time commitments and you wake up every day and say, what would you like to do today? Sometimes challenge is getting something done, getting the things that you want to get done, done.
And my natural tendency is to not want to do work related stuff or to procrastinate on doing those kinds of things. And I started looking at it and realized, why is it that I can play golf so effortlessly? And I can do it for four hours at a time, and I can do it four times a week.
And so I started looking at it as like, how could I get that same level of focus that I have when I'm playing golf and apply it to working on projects or working on doing things that I want to do outside of playing golf? And what I realized is that there's a few things about golf that make it effortless to do for me, starting with ... And I made a little acronym for golf there.
So the G stands for having a goal. And a goal just means making a decision that this is what I'm going to do. So the process of playing golf starts with making the decision that I'm going to play golf. And then I make the decision of, well, what golf course am I going to play? And I am a member of the country club so I know I'm going to play at my country club.
Joe: I even went there. We had lunch at your country club where you play golf when I was in Toronto. And let me first preface this by saying, this is a great analogy and you love golf. You go to Scotland to play golf. I mean, you're all into this. I'm kind of like, I like the George Carlin philosophy of golf.
I think it's just a waste of real estate. But nonetheless, I've played golf a few times. Yet has it hit me in a way that where it strikes me as this is something that I really want to do, although I haven't completely given up on the whole concept, but the point is you like playing golf, that works for you. And so since you really thought about why does that work for me?
Here's why. And I think as you go through this, I want everyone to really listen about any area. Think about this from the context that anything in your life that you really enjoy how this kind of fits in, because it kind of explains why we like the things we like. At least that's what I get out of your exercise here in your analogy.
Dean: Right, and you can do the same thing with yoga. I mean, you could make an acronym out of yoga. It's essentially the same thing. If I can do it and you liked it.
Joe: I am going to do that. I don't know what it's going to be yet, but will consider. Without me continuing to sidetrack you some more, carry on.
Dean: So that G is a goal. So I've made the decision that I'm going to play golf and I know that what that means is that I've set aside the time to do it. I know that for the next five hours, all in in terms of driving to the country club, getting ready, getting my golf clubs out on the car, playing the 18 holes, having a drink with the guys afterwards, and coming back to the house is going to be a five hour process.
I've made the decision that that's what I'm going to do with that time and I've set aside the time to do that. Then the O is an optimal environment. That golf courses are the optimal environment for playing golf. They're set up where you start out on the first hole and you hit your ball towards the green, and you go and you finish that hole and then you move on to the second hole, and the third hole, and the fourth.
There's a real progression to it. It's an optimal environment. Everything is right there, all the tools that you need, you've got them all right at your disposal. You got a little cart that you're driving around and you got your golf clubs in the back. Everything you need to play golf is right there because it's an optimal environment for it. L is for limited distractions.
When you're on the golf course, it's kind of like a great escape. You're out on the golf course. The phone's not ringing, you're not distracted by the TV or the fridge or the magazines, or going to do anything, fixing yourself some food or whatever it is. There's no or limited distractions when you're out playing golf.
And then F is a fixed timeframe. I know that it's going to have a beginning and it's going to have an end. And I know that the entire process of playing golf is a five hour round trip that I know that I can get to the country club play 18 holes, have a nice leisurely time to pack up and get back home. And it's going to be a five hour process.
So I started thinking about that is how could I apply those same things to doing other projects? So that's where I came up with that analogy. So G would be a goal. Let's say, I want to write a newsletter or write an article. So I want to decide that that's what I'm going to do, how long, I'm going to set aside time specifically to do that.
Then, O is an optimal environment. What would be the optimal environment for writing the newsletter or writing an article or writing a training program or recording a podcast or whatever it is. What's the optimal environment for that? And part of this for me, I've got both in Toronto and in Florida now, I call them my evil scheme hatcheries or my labs where I can go and there's no telephone, no internet, nothing to distract me.
It's just set up optimally for my optimal activities, which are writing something, recording something, outlining something, or thinking about something to outline or write or record. And if I am doing those things, that is the optimal environment for me. So if you come to my lab in Florida, I've got two rooms about a 900 square foot space.
Let's say I've got two rooms, one of them is like a conference type of room with a big eight foot white board for throwing out ideas and outlining things, and just thinking visually like that. Then I've got another room, which is my reading and writing room where I've got a couple of really comfortable leather club chairs and a writing desk, and a nice, comfortable chair there, and a big corkboard for laying out outline and stuff.
So for me, that's an optimal environment. And when I go in there, I know that it's going to support me in doing my best work without being distracted because if I'm at home, it's so easy to surf all day on the internet or play X-Box or watch TV or sit in the hot tub or whatever. There's any number of distractions.
Joe: Well, yeah. And so in Toronto, when I was with you, you actually have a place that you lease and it literally ... I mean, I went there with you. There's a chair and a desk, and there's nothing on the wall. There's no computers, there's no phones. It's like-
Dean: The white board, yeah.
Joe: You just go there and think.
Dean: Like a hotel room. My one in Florida, my one in Georgetown is about the size of a good size hotel room, completely quiet and, and the optimal environment for working, limited distractions. So that's where that L comes in. And then that F when you're working on a project is having a fixed timeframe.
Knowing that I'm going to do this, I'm going to set aside this time and I'm going to do it for four hours or whatever it is just to choose one thing. I think over choice is often the big thing that keeps us from being our most productive.
Joe: Yeah, and so basically for me, I go play golf, if using your analogy. Because we've been talking about this for at least a couple of years now and I've referenced it, but this first time I actually officially recorded anything with you on it. I go to the library. I mean, my favorite place to work is, block a couple hours ago, the library.
Here's my objective. It's an optimal environment for me because it's quiet, it's peaceful, limited distractions and fixed timeframe. And I mean, libraries are just fabulous for me. I think I've made more money sitting in libraries than ever have sitting in an office, and they're free. I mean, it's just amazing.
And I like going to coffee shops, are good, sometimes depending on it that sometimes the noise and the overstimulation. You take Dan Sullivan as an example. Dan is a very prolific guy and Dan likes going to coffee shops and he actually likes the buzz and the noise and the people, and the background music.
Dean: We had breakfast up in Toronto, one of these places that is a perfect environment for sitting. There's some background activity, it's never loud, but it's great.
Joe: Yeah, exactly. So I mean, for everyone listening, think about where could you go? What's an optimal environment for your first identified goal? What's going to work for you? There's no right or wrong place. It's just where do you feel the most focused and where can you do your best work?
And if you can use this whole analogy, this acronym that Dean as invented called golf, I think it's just a fabulous way to be a heck of a lot more productive and enjoy what it is that you do. And I mean Dan Sullivan teaches the no office concept where offices are just not very productive places for entrepreneurs to get any work done, and I completely agree with that.
Dean: And that's true. I want to make that distinction that what I have is not ... I wouldn't call that an office because it's not. We have offices separate from that, where everything takes place.
Joe: Exactly, very good. Anything else you want to add to that?
Dean: No.
Joe: Okay. Well then we only got a few minutes left so I want you to explain the tiger proof your company, and we'll leave everyone with this and that is it. So just kind of quickly tell the story of what it all means and then our listeners will be set off to do their I know I'm being successful list and they could play golf as they develop it so that they can ... It all ties together.
And the ultimate benefit of playing golf and creating I know I'm being successful win list is that you can have something set up just like you're going to explain right now with tiger proofing your company.
Dean: A few years ago I was riding in a plane and I was reading Forbes magazine, and I saw that they had the list of the top 40 entertainers. And on that list I saw Siegfried and Roy were on that list and they had just signed a new contract with the Mirage for $28 million. And what they did for that was they worked 40 weeks, eight shows a week for 40 weeks out of the year.
And I also saw on the list, higher up on the list, the Blue Man Group, and they had revenue of $69 million. And what struck me as being very interesting about that was the fact that there were several groups of blue men that they were running concurrent shows all over the country and the original guys that invented the Blue Man group don't perform anymore.
That it's understood. It's people who have learned all the moves. And it really struck me as something very interesting because a lot of the work I do is with real estate agents. And the way that realtors generally build their business is through personal promotion where they build it up where their business is they're the focus of their business and it's dependent on them.
So I wrote a newsletter about that distinction and the spooky thing about it was that I wrote that newsletter just two months before Roy was mauled by the tiger. And immediately Siegfried and Roy, the whole show was shut down. Hundreds of people lost their jobs, millions of dollars in lost revenue because now Roy could not perform the show and the business had to shut down.
And I thought, what a distinction that is you've got a choice of building your business to model the Blue Man Group, where what people are really coming to see is blue men doing this show. Whereas if they were coming to see Siegfried and Roy, they were expecting to see Siegfried and Roy.
They weren't coming to see two guys and the tiger. And the interesting thing about that is that you've got that choice. Anytime you start to build a business, you've got the choice to build it so that it can be something that will survive and is not dependent on you. So the question that I ask people all the time is how tiger proof is your business?
What would happen to your business right now if you were mauled by a tiger today? And you have to, even just having that provocation or thinking that way is going to make you open up your eyes to another possibility. You start to think, because none of us are ... It could happen to anybody. Not that you get mauled by a tiger, but you could get hit by a bus or you could get in a car accident or you could have any number of illnesses that could come down and would your business be able to survive that?
The only way to be free of your business is to design it from the beginning. It's interesting, the Blue Man Group is a three man show, but there were four guys that started the whole thing so that they would always be sure that at least three of them would be able to show up.
Joe: Yeah, because you were telling me they all have part time jobs.
Dean: They all had other jobs. They started out as street performers.
Joe: God knows what that business is worth right now today as the time we do this interview because it just grows and grows. But the point is it's because of how they set it up and the structure, and that was a great design. And if anyone has never seen the Blue Man group, I've seen it three times. It's amazing.
I've seen it where it originally started in New York and in Chicago, and I've seen it in Vegas and it's just an amazing show.
Dean: Next time you come to Toronto, we'll go see it there again too.
Joe: They have it in Toronto now?
Dean: Yeah.
Joe: Oh wow, that's awesome. But the point is everyone, tiger proof your company and how do you do that? Well, you do it just like how do you become successful? You do it by design. And how do you do that? Well, you do it because you're focused and you give yourself the ability to work in a manner that leverages you, your skills, your talents, your resources.
There's only three things that we can spend, that's time, money and energy. And if we spend time, money and energy in the most productive ways possible then we are happier and we're better, and we enjoy whatever you deem as making you successful. So I think Dean, this has been a great value to all of the listeners. I'm going to take my coaching members through this as a constant part of my coaching groups all the time.
So I wanted to document this recording for all of my coaching members so that they will have a refresher and kind of see where the original thinking behind this started from and to have you as a model. Well, that's it Dean. That's pretty much what I wanted to chat with you about pick your brain about.
So I really appreciate you taking the time to do this interview and to all my listeners, I really hope you take the time now to go play golf. Go set up a goal and I'd like, at least a goal, if I can suggest one to you, is to create. I know I'm being successful when list within the next few days, if you haven't done it immediately and find an optimal environment where you can create this, give yourself limited distractions and make it happen.
Because once you have this roadmap, it'll be a great filtering process, and I look forward to hearing your feedback. So, that's it Dean. Have a great day.
Dean: Thanks Joe. And there we have it, another great episode. And if you'd like to continue the conversation, you can go to listingagentlifestyle.com. You can download a copy of the listing agent lifestyle book, the manifesto that shares everything that we're talking about here.
And you can be a guest on the show if you'd like to talk about how we can build a listing agent lifestyle plan for your business. Just click on the, 'be a guest' link at listingagentlifestyle.com. And if you'd like to join our community of people who are applying all of the things we talk about in the Listing Agent Lifestyle, come on over to gogoagent.com.
So we've got all the programs, all the tools, everything you need to get listings, to multiply your listings, to get referrals, convert leads, and to find buyers. And you can get a free, truly free, no credit card required trial for 30 days at gogoagent.com. So come on over and I will see you there.