Today on the Listing Agent Lifestyle podcast we're talking with Alex Loutchanski from Toronto, where, coincidentally, I happen to be this week.
We had a great conversation. Alex has focused on trying to establish a way to get listings and get repeat and referral business from his clients, and we spent the whole hour talking about those two things.
We talked about what he's working on at the moment, and the most important outcome of engineering the conversation when we're communicating with both people who are going to sell their house in the next 12, 24 36 months, and the people who already know you, like you, and trust you,
It's very important that we always start with the reason why we're doing anything in the first place.
For example, the reason we're communicating with people who live in a particular neighborhood or a specific type of home, is to establish yourself as the only choice when it's time for them to sell, so we're looking to identify the people who are most likely to sell in the next year or so.
With our top 150, the people who know you, like you, and trust you… the people you would recognize if you saw them at the grocery store… we're trying to continue to stay in contact with them. The number one reason people don't use the realtor that helped them get the house they just sold is because they've lost touch with them, so we're trying to stay in touch and be on their mind when they think of selling, or hear other people talking about buying, selling, moving, or investing.
The hour with Alex went by quick, and you're going to enjoy this conversation.
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Transcript: Listing Agent Lifestyle Ep078
Dean: Hello Alex.
Alex: Dean Jackson.
Dean: How do I say your last name, Alex?
Alex: Loutchanski.
Dean: Loutchanski, just like that. Okay.
Alex: Yeah.
Dean: I like it. A little singsongy tone in there.
Alex: Are you hearing me okay? Before we start I just want to make sure you're able to hear me clearly because I am on a Bluetooth device and often people say they don't hear me well and if that's the case I can just put-
Dean: No, I can hear you fine. Sounds good so far.
Alex: Perfect. Perfect. Perfect.
Dean: Where are we? Are you in Toronto?
Alex: I am in Toronto, yes. I am on the east end of Toronto in Scarborough.
Dean: Nice. Well, I just arrived in Toronto. I'm here in Yorkville at the Hazelton right now.
Alex: Awesome. It's a nice area and such nice weather today.
Dean: Perfect.
Alex: We haven't had that so you're right on time for some good sunny weather.
Dean: Welcome. I'm very excited to talk with you. We've got the whole hour here for us. What are we going to talk about? What's your aim here today?
Alex: Well, basically if I can summarize what I am trying to do is I want to achieve really a system. A systematic approach to my business where I can scale down the big goals into workable chunks and put the time label on each and try to start implementing them in a systematic way so that it does not become one, overwhelming. Second, confusing and third, ineffective because this is what I have been noticing in the way I have been doing my business for the past several years. It's more of a job. It feels more of a job than a business.
Dean: It's dependent on you.
Alex: Correct. Correct. This is where I want to really start implementing little steps to make it systematic and I would want to have a little more time to start thinking on the business rather than running after every single little task that is often not a priority.
Dean: Right. How did our paths cross and how are we here together now?
Alex: Well, I knew of you since probably I would say 2010 or 2011. When I first started in real estate I moved to Toronto in 2007 and in 2010 I got my real estate actually officially the beginning of 2011 I got my real estate license and pretty much knew nothing about it. Then I started with a franchise of Keller Williams. The owner had spoken at the time very highly of you and at that same time in 2011 I started listening to some of your podcasts with Joe Polish.
I remember actually I was in Cuba the first time on vacation when I was on the beach and enjoying and listening to my first exposure to all of that. Then I started within a team in that same brokerage as a buyer agent and worked with them for a year and then moved on to be on my own. Switched to a different company. From that point I've been doing discretely well. However, now that I'm more absorbed into real estate, I feel the need of improvement.
Dean: Mm-hmm. That's good. It feels good to be able to grow and to continue like you feel you're advancing. Otherwise, real estate's the kind of business where here it is next year 2020 and you'll have not 10 years of experience but one year of experience 10 years in a row, right?
Alex: Exactly, yes.
Dean: Nothing's really changed. Well, that's wonderful to focus on. Have you been listening to our Listing Agent Lifestyle podcast?
Alex: I have. Basically that's where actually what prompted my move. Again, I have been familiar and I have been enjoying a lot of the ideas that you have been promoting over the years. This is actually my second trial before I jumped in. But, yes, I have been listening to most of the recent podcasts in the past few months in the gym primarily. That's been my motivation in the gym in the morning.
And then I signed in for the trial and then decided to join. So, in a way I'm somehow familiar with the concepts, with the overall strategy.
Dean: So this will be a good-
Alex: .But now, the implementation.
Dean: Yeah. Let's go through and we'll kind of do an assessment here or look at where you are in them and I'll recommend what the next best course of action could be for you because we really do have a systematic way of applying a listing centric approach to building not only a business that kind of grows without you but provides for whatever lifestyle you want. That's kind of counter to what real estate is generally known as a business that you sacrifice your life freedom kind of thing to be successful in it.
I was just last fall November marked 30 years since I got my real estate license and that was the beginning of my pursuit of trying to apply marketing to real estate. So, we've figured out so many great things along the way and kind of encapsulated it in these eight elements of the Listing Agent Lifestyle.
So, the first thing that we talk about is getting these eight in alignment here. We're looking to see if you're going to have a listing centric business, we've got to have a systematic way of getting listing. If you've got listings, then the second element is that we use to multiply those listing. To make the most out of every opportunity that you get. Then we want to orchestrate referrals from the people who know you and like you and trust you. And then we want to focus on converting leads because that's really where a big opportunity lies in most businesses. And then we focus on finding buyers.
All of those things kind of generally in that order. We go through it because there's priority involved in it. Those are the five business elements and then we have three lifestyle elements where we're trying to really balance these dials so that we're focused on daily joy and abundant time and financial peace. Those eight together are the basis for the listing agent lifestyle.
If we look at the first of getting listings, describe to me what your current system is for getting listings. Do you have a plan in place that gets listings for you?
Alex: What I have been doing so far for the most part I have been focusing on marketing. When I first started with real estate here unfortunately I did not have any sphere of influence in a way that there was no family members or many connections or networking. It was a bit tough. What I started doing I figured out is if I don't know anyone if there's nowhere to start, I would start with some of marketing. I started basically with, believe it or not, with marketing to tenants, to renters.
And within a year I started converting a lot of those into buyers. After a few more years many of them turned into sellers so that was one side. Then I started doing in the past couple of years I would do a lot of social media ads. I would do Facebook Ads primarily targeting sellers within a specific area. For example, an ad would say something like, "42 homes sold in November in Cliffcrest. The highest price was this much. Your home value has changed, and then with a link to it would be either a lead form or it would take them to a landing page.
That's the effort that I had been doing primarily with generating business for sellers. Once there is a listing, then I would really try to leverage the listing within the neighborhood. I would invite them to a sneak preview. I would give them a call to action on a print material mailer pretty much similar to what we have here what I see here, but formatted in a bit of a different way.
And then once I have seller lead what I have been doing, and this is where I would need a bit of a guidance. For the people that are past clients that have been past clients, that have been people that know me really well, I am sending a print newsletter which is done by a pretty nice company in Richmond Hill. They use variable data so it's quite customized. That goes to from what I understand, that would be the top 150 if I correctly understand the concept of the top 150.
Dean: That's right.
Alex: Those are only past clients and occasionally the seller leads that I consider to be hot or I believe will be moving.
Dean: Well, I would separate those.
Alex: Exactly. That was my questions.
Dean: You're talking about two completely different things. Yeah, yeah, we're talking about two completely different statements.
I'm going to put your top 150 to the side for a second because we'll talk specifically about that. Let's focus on the listing side right now. Tell me how do you measure how your listing getting system is working. Are you continually doing Facebook Ads are you continually nurturing those leads? What's going on?
Alex: For the second part of the question in terms of nurturing what I have been doing for seller leads, I would put them on something and send them a quarterly market date for the specific area so it's like a mini CMA where I would do for the neighborhood, I would do for example, let's say it's Caledon. There's a small area in Caledon where I am trying to farm and I'm losing the hold of it for some reason.
But, I would say I would send those particular leads every quarter, I have a reminder in my database, a market activity report and I would pull the three months back of what has sold in a radius of let's say one kilometer of the subject of the house with a cover letter that is tailored to the community say Southfield Village home values. Quarterly market base, something like that.
And then I would put call for action also basically saying this is not a complete market analysis, but if you would like an actual accurate assessment and then there is a link for them to contact. This goes every quarter to those people. Problem with it is that I do it manually and it takes so much time. Unfortunately, I cannot generate because of TREB, I cannot automatically I cannot have a system to automatically generate such a localized report.
For example, in the U.S. I know even top producer has something that's called Market Snapshot which automatically pulls data but because of the privacy situation here, they were not allowed. I was trying to get it which would have automated that same process. So, anyway this is what I'm doing with trying to keep in touch with leads that are not immediate.
Dean: Let me ask you about the ROI on that. How do you measure the return on investment in terms of what you're doing? Let me put some numbers to things. What's the average sales price in there?
Alex: The average sales price I would say is around seven to 750.
Dean: How many homes are there?
Alex: In this particular area there are around 2000. Well, I'm talking about the Caledon area.
Dean: Exactly. Let's focus on that. That's fine.
Alex: They're about 2000 to 2500 homes based on the information that I get from the postal walks.
Dean: That's fine.
Alex: Out of those I would say 45% to 50% are townhouses and those have been primarily the houses I have been targeting because 2000 homes has been a bit expensive to go after especially with where I am at my level. So, those are the numbers.
Dean: So roughly 1000 townhomes in that area?
Alex: Yes.
Dean: What's the turnover rate in there? How many sell in a 12-month period?
Alex: In this particular area I have not taken the turnover rate specifically. I started talking about that. This is where I used to have traction and that's why I mentioned I lost a bit of it. Now, what I found recently and I actually have an active listing there and I have sold a few houses, is a smaller complex and this is what I started working with Diane on which is 450 townhouses.
It's a very small area, a newer area. But, that's where I've measured the turnover so in this area the turnover is 6% from June of last year to basically today.
Dean: So, two or three sales a month in there.
Alex: Yeah, 450 homes, 27 townhouses sold last year which gives me 6% turnover. The problem with this little area it's very easy to manage and it has a name which is also something that I am excited about and I want to possibly try. It's called Oakdale Village. It has a nice big sign saying Oakdale Village so it's easily recognizable.
Dean: That's in Caledon?
Alex: In North York. No, it's in North York. That's in North York. The only issue that I've recently encountered there is all of a sudden huge surge in inventory that is not selling.
Dean: I got you.
Alex: All of a sudden there is 15 active listings and they have been sitting on the market since April.
Dean: Let me ask you this. Part of the thing that we look to do is kind of narrow your focus. And what I'm hearing from you is there's a little bit of back and forth. North York and then Caledon, Scarborough, yeah.
Alex: This is exactly also part of the reason, this is something that I do realize and this is also part of the reason why I want to really go much more systematic and more focused. But, you know what the reason is? The reason is because in many of those areas I would have taken a listing. And once I take a listing usually there's another listing.
And then I decide to stay there. But then I would get a listing somewhere else and then I say, okay, well and then I would switch. This is the problem.
Dean: Wherever the wind blows.
Alex: That's the problem. Right. That's the problem. That's what it is.
Dean: We want to establish some roots. Yeah, we want to establish some roots for you. My question to you would be if you could establish roots somewhere where would you want to be? Are you interested in Caledon?
Alex: No, not in a way. It's just that I recognized two years ago I took a first listing and then I realized there was a lot of turnover. It's a newer development so a lot of people have been buying for investment then moving on so there's a lot of turnover, a lot of action but it's also oversaturated with other local agents.
Ideally, if I have to choose, I live in Scarborough basically very close to the Upper Beaches area in Scarborough close to the Bluffs. This is actually an area where Tony Kalsi works in the general area. I've seen his signs around and some of his marketing as well and I'm familiar with who he is. I live in this area.
If I were to choose, there is a small pocket called Cliffcrest which is composed of mostly mature homes. It's a mature neighborhood which I am familiar with simply because I also live in the area. The reason I've been a bit skeptical of trying it is well, number one, because there's, again, some more mature areas and there have been a few established names of agents that have been there for a long time.
That's what's been a bit holding me off. But then I started marketing a few months, six months back to this area and started getting some leads. Not immediate business, but people that have raised their hands meaning that from what I understand there is potential business. This would be Cliffcrest. This area here is not big. It has a name also as a neighborhood. This would be something that I would be comfortable and willing to really put an effort to develop.
Dean: How many leads have you generated from the areas that you were focused on with all the Facebook Ads and things that you were doing?
Alex: I'm trying to keep them separate. In this area, again, none of those so far has turned into a business. I have not taken a listing here.
Dean: How long has it been since you ran the first ads?
Alex: Seven, eight months I would say. It was in the late fall of last year when I started I tried it in the... Right now I can check and see exactly how many leads I have in my Salesforce. This is only for sellers. I have not targeted a lot of buyers and this is probably also something where I want to...
Dean: You're in a situation where the way I see what you're doing is sort of sporadic in that first of all it's only been seven or eight months since you've been doing it. What I don't hear is an established consistent pattern of longevity on it. Since you're right there in Tony's area, that if we look at, I don't know whether you've heard either the first or second episode of the Listing Agent Lifestyle podcast was with Tony and we're closing in on now a sixth one. September will be a sixth year case study of monitoring everything that's happened there.
But, what was really interesting to see Tony came down to Orlando in February for our GoGo Agent Academy. He had just passed a million dollars in business from this case study area, from the getting listings. But, what was really interesting was when we looked back, we've been tracking everything month after month, and there's an infographic of the results attached to that podcast episode. But, it was five months before he got the first listing from there. But then has gone on to do many, many, many more and over a million dollars in commissions from that.
You're very much at the infancy stage of this.
Alex: Yes.
Dean: And it's that longevity that we've got there. If I just ask you in and you don't seem to really have a specific handle on the numbers which is very important there. But in a just from a sense of magnitude, are we talking about 10 leads or 100 leads or 1000 leads that you generated?
Alex: I have from this particular area, I'm just looking at what I have in the database right now. I have total 45 leads with addresses, telephone number and email.
Dean: That's an asset that you have right now. That if we look at that, that that asset over the next 12 months, 24 months, 36 months, that some of those people will sell their house. Tony's been able to convert almost 10% of everybody over a long period of time there. You're sitting on potentially two or three or four listings there that if you just focus on maintaining that relationship with them, that you'll be able to be the one that they call.
I would recommend that you bump up the communication to monthly rather than quarterly. We've got all of the tools for you. I've written all the follow-up materials in the Getting Listings program in GoGo Agent. So, you've got access to all of that where there are 12. We do a get top dollar newsletter each month. We do a cover letter that you can send out along with the updates of what's been going on in the neighborhood for them or in the area. That's really all you have to do is just continue to mail those because each of those cover letters invites people to give you a call whenever they're ready to either get a pinpoint price analysis or a room-by-room review or ask about your silent market.
There's always leading to the next steps for them so you don't need to call them or pursue them like that. They will call you and that's always a good thing.
Alex: Okay, perfect. We're talking here about actual mail not email.
Dean: Both. You do both actually. We send them the physical report and there's nothing that demonstrates your advocacy, your acting on their behalf than a physical mounting evidence pile that each month Alex is going out of his way and very kindly keeping us up to date with what's going on in the market. We had it happen just on our way to the GoGo Agent Academy.
Diane, you know Diane got a message on her way to the Academy from somebody in an area where we've been doing the getting listings program who said, "You've been corresponding with my wife and sending us the monthly updates and we really appreciate it. We want you to come over and we need to sell our house." It was really like after message after message like that of people calling and appreciating the fact that you are going out of your way. It's harder having that physical evidence there is very different than just setting somebody up on an automated email system. That doesn't feel the same. It's not the same impact that you get.
All I look at is the ROI is there. We're talking about that Tony over years and all the people who are doing this over years, we're talking about 10, 11, 12 to 1 ROI on the investment that they're making in doing the mailing. There's a big payoff for it.
Alex: Right, right. Okay. Now-
Dean: We got that whole thing handled for you. I think that's the thing we're going to adopt those 45 into this follow-up system then narrow your focus to whatever area you want and just follow the plan. Just go right from scratch. You're starting with establishing yourself in an area so you may as well start and just go by the book and just do it exactly the way that we've got laid out for you. That's the easiest thing. You mentioned that you're talking with Diane and I imagine she's helping you with that too.
Alex: I am. Actually, I was waiting for our call today and I will get in touch with her tomorrow to basically set completely some of the components of the GoGo Agent. I would want definitely I love the idea and it was one of the ideas that really stood out of making the monthly video in front of them and then follow it with a Facebook Ad and the postcard. So this is where-
Dean: That's one thing that's been great. We've been doing that with Diane. We've been doing a video monthly to arrive at the same time that the postcards are arriving. We've seen a bump in the response from that which is great. It's nice.
Alex: This is something I feel I really want to start with and then go from there with the rest of the components and see what happens. Now, with phone calls are not involved it seems in the system-
Dean: No phone calls, right.
Alex: Right?
Dean: Yeah, everything that I've done that was my provocation in setting the whole thing up was to set it up in a way that it would work if my phone only accepted incoming calls. That's the way I look at everything. I don't want to make any outbound phone calls. We're targeting towards people calling saying, "Come see me about selling my house." That's the way everything is designed to get that phone call. So, you don't have to call them at all which is great.
Alex: Okay. In this case it's been happening a lot. I would get often and so, unfortunately, I have been ignoring those. I would get a lot of what my system classified here as partial leads where somebody responds but they don't put the whole information and I do have the address and occasionally I would have a name. Now, what do we do with those?
Dean: Mail. Do exactly that's all we need.
Alex: Okay.
Dean: That's all you need. That's it. That's all you need for is to mail out the reports and everything that we're doing is bonding with people over time. That you're establishing yourself as someone who is acting as their realtors. If that goes on for three months, six months, nine months, you're already in more contact and better quality contact with them than any incumbent realtor that is ignoring them or not in touch with them. That's what most people do.
Alex: Right, yeah.
Dean: So, if they're asking about the stuff that means that they don't have a real estate agent that they can just call to get the info. They had to reach out for it and now here you are in constant and meaningful and helpful contact with them. That's how we start establishing you as the go to in their minds one mind at a time. That's all that matters is that those people, the people who ask for the report are a much higher probability to sell their house than the general population. The people who are not curious about what their house is worth.
So, you now establishing yourself in a deeper way, in a deeper relationship with them, is really giving you an advantage over everybody else who's trying to convince the whole market to list their house with them. We're just focused on convincing the ones who's already demonstrated an interest in selling.
Alex: Right. Awesome. In terms of sending something that's been a bit confusing to me, in terms of there's so much noise about privacy and permission to communicate with people. Now, sometimes if I have let's say there is a person that has indicated they want some information and I would send them the initial report.
Dean: Yes.
Alex: If they don't reply and is it appropriate to start mailing them every month?
Dean: Yes.
Alex: Every month?
Dean: That's the way the whole foundation of the system works.
Alex: Okay. So then it's okay because obviously with email we cannot do that for the most part. But with an email-
Dean: Well, an email you can because each of the emails has an unsubscribe link, right?
Alex: Right.
Dean: So, that's no problem. And you're not adding people they're adding themselves. They've requested info so it's not like you're just spamming people. They asked for the info and you are sending them appropriate and timely, valuable information about exactly what they asked for. So, that's how we're establishing yourself as a very helpful, consistent person.
Alex: Right.
Dean: That there would be no reason for them to go anywhere else.
Alex: Right.
Dean: That's a good thing. Now, in terms of your top 150, I completely know exactly the course of action for you for the getting listings. We've established that. It's just we're going to choose the area and just do it exactly like we lay it out and then it will all just fall into place. But, what I would love to talk about for you is your top 150 now.
These would be the people that if you saw them at the grocery store you would stop. You'd recognize them by name and you'd have a conversation with them. Have you got a list of those people organized in your database already?
Alex: I have in a way but it will get more segmented. What I started doing and this is following my time at Keller Williams. I would start categorizing everyone that I had been in touch with in some way under a category called met, so people that know me and those have been really the people I have been sending email newsletters monthly. Whenever I would send something around the listing they would receive that and the monthly newsletter.
Then I have my past clients. This is further divided by depending on the past client sellers, past client buyers, past client renters, whatever they are. And then I have another separate category which is sphere of influence which is really people I interact with that know me very well, friends or family and stuff like that.
Now, it's been a bit confusing in this way. And plus I have a whole, whole; probably over a total size of the database right now is around 1100. Out of it though, there's a whole category that for one or another reason has gone to trash. I keep that category trash. People that either were not converted or have unsubscribed or whatever the case it might be.
Out of this, the 150, obviously it seems past client would go there. Is that correct?
Dean: Yes. Of course. Here's who should be on that list is everybody who's living in the house that you've helped them get. You're the incumbent real estate agent. You're the reigning current elected real estate agent in their life just by the fact that you're the last one that helped them get in there so you're responsible, right? You are their real estate agent because they haven't had another one to replace you yet.
So, the idea is that you're going to be their real estate agent for life and you'll be there to serve them whenever they have a need and that they will feel comfortable to refer their friends and their family to you if they hear anybody who has a real estate need. So, those people for sure. Then, anybody else that would be in your world that you would recognize by name and hope that they would consider you to be their real estate agent or that you would hope that they would feel comfortable to refer people to you.
Those are the ones you don't necessarily have a business relationship with them, but those would be people like your neighbors and your family if you've got family in the area. They would be the people that you socialize with. The people that you wouldn't normally maybe consider or think of as, and I'm using quotes here, marketing to them because that's not what it's about. It's about that these are the people that you know that you could communicate with.
All we're looking to do is to manage that relationship portfolio for a 20% annual yield. What that means is that from a group of 150 people, we should be able to generate 30 transactions from that group. Now, when you get right down to it, that's the gold standard here. That's what we're really looking for. But, when you think about the actuality of it for your top 150, the two questions that I would ask you is first of all, do you have 150 that you have organized like that?
Alex: Yes, and that's what I wanted to understand. What this will mean in my case is combining my past client category with what I have is a sphere of influence in the database. Combine both under top 150.
Dean: Yes.
Alex: And keep them separate.
Dean: Yes, perfect. That's exactly right. And then-
Alex: I believe I will have the number if not maybe slightly more.
Dean: Okay. When you look at now if we overlay that metric on your existing system, how many transactions did you do in the last 12 months that were repeat or referral or direct business from people that you know?
Alex: In the last 12 months I had seven transactions that were from people that I know and referred.
Dean: That would be if we take seven out of 150, that's pretty close to 5% return on relationship is how we measure that. Right? So, right now your current system whatever you're doing with your top 150, the yield on that, the result that you're getting from those efforts is that you did seven transactions and you managed that relationship portfolio for a 5% annual yield roughly. Somewhere between four and five, right?
So, when we look at that what we're missing out on is that there's way more transactions available for you from just that group of 150 there. Now, what would be if I'm in your top 150, what would I have received from you in terms of communication in the last 12 months? How often do I hear from you and in what form do I hear from you? You mentioned a newsletter.
Alex: Quite frankly for the most part that's what they have been receiving. A monthly print newsletter. Again, the print newsletter goes only to my past clients and I have been using it for some leads, seller leads but this is going to get replaced now with the-
Dean: Yeah, we're going to treat the seller leads differently. We're going to treat them like seller prospects and we're going to treat your top 150 differently.
Alex: Yeah, the top 150 so far has been basically monthly touch with the newsletter and then holidays obviously. Christmas, Easter, whatever holiday we have it would be another touch. This has mostly been email. And then for a select smaller group I would send print calendars for Christmas.
Dean: Is the newsletter that you're sending, is it a physical mailed newsletter or emailed?
Alex: Yeah, mailed. It's print. Yeah, it's mailed.
Dean: What would you say if I were to ask you what is your primary purpose of that newsletter? What is it designed to do?
Alex: I'm not writing the content that's one thing. It comes from a company. It's quite informative in terms of the market. It gives market news and then there is one call for action that is customizable. I can put whatever I want there. The other customizable fields are three listings.
For the rest it is just dealing with the market news. Mostly mortgages, whatever, anything related to real estate. It's been a variable data so they use their own name and it goes customized to them.
Dean: What would be the call to action on the card? Or on the newsletter?
Alex: This is something that I would occasionally change. I would sometimes put something like 10 best condos for sale in June let's say this with a link to a landing page. For home values have been on a shift and then a link for a home valuation or a report. Basically, the report that we are going to be implementing now I used to call it a Market Activity Report in a way and this is what I always thought. Then I would use them.
Dean: So, in a lot of ways from what I'm hearing, it feels like and seems like you‘re treating them like prospects in a way. All of your things you're sending them market data. You're sending them things that as if they may be going to do something, right? That sounds like the calls to action there.
Alex: Yes.
Dean: So, have you seen the World's Most Interesting Postcard yet?
Alex: I have.
Dean: And so the purpose of that, the entire purpose is to increase the number of referrals that you get from your top people by increasing the number of times that people notice conversations about real estate and that they think of you and were instructing them on what to do to introduce you to the people that they've had those conversations with.
We don't let anything get in the way of that. This is something that I've been working on this puzzle for a long time and trying to figure out what really is the purpose of sending a newsletter to clients or sending anything to them? If I started creating the checklist of reasons or outcomes that you could want from doing any kind of mailing to your top 150, first of all it would be that we want a touch point. We want to register as a touch point. That they go, "Oh, here's Alex," right? That you're there in front of them so that registers in their mind, "Oh, there's Alex. I know Alex. Alex is our real estate agent." That's the chain of thoughts that we want.
If you're not mailing or sending anything to people, they're not getting that input, right? So, number one reason it's crazy but when you look at all the NAR statistics, 84% of people who are surveyed on closing say that they're happy with and would reuse the realtor that helped them that they used in this transaction again. But, less than 25% of the people who do transactions actually use the real estate agent that helped them last time and the number one reason is that they lost contact with them.
So, number one, we're making that contact. Number two is that the most important thing we could do is orchestrate a way for them to refer people. We use every month we talk about a different high probability conversation that might be going on that we're programming so that just a quick note in case you hear someone talking about buying their first home or buying an investment property or moving out of town or selling their house or buying a house to fix up or moving to the country, or building a house or expanding their house. Any of the things that would be the likely things that people would be talking about, and we want to demonstrate or instruct them on what to do when they hear that.
If we say, "Just a quick note in case you hear someone talking about selling their house. School is almost out and a lot of families decide that they want to move and get settled before the school year starts again. If you hear someone talking about selling their house this summer, give me a call or text me and I'll get you a copy of our How to Sell your House for Top Dollar Fast book to give them."
We're solving the whole loop for people in a way that gives them the opportunity to be a hero to their clients or their friends. The people that they know and like and trust. That sort of programming is what raises the number of times that you get referrals from people.
When you look at your seven that you did in the last 12 months from that group, how many of them were referrals and how many were repeat or direct business with people that were on the list?
Alex: Four were referred and three were just repeat business from-
Dean: Direct.
Alex: Yeah.
Dean: Okay. It's really interesting when you look at it. Can you remember one of the situations of the four that were referred and how that came about? How did it happen?
Alex: Well, one of the referrals was actually a client, a tenant client, that was referred through somebody else. I happened to have someone looking to buy. But it was very fresh. This is the thing. I see that when there is still initial fresh contact, people get more and then as time goes by some of the people because again, I feel guilty if some of those people that have been really good clients that are sellers and buyers, yeah, they have been receiving that newsletter, but nothing really from them. All of those referrals were from people that have had an interaction with me relatively recently.
Dean: That's why at very least monthly is what we want to do because that way you're in front of them. In a way the reason we do the postcard and it's bright yellow and it's very interesting-looking is that you're not going to miss it in the mailbox. It's the most exciting thing they'll get in the mail. But, it's also then very easy to consume in that it's right there. They see both sides and it's easy to get that message.
Alex: So, in that case I will then replace for the 150 I will start mailing the most interesting postcard.
Dean: Or add it.
Alex: Would it not be an overkill with two pieces monthly?
Dean: No, we have people who do-
Alex: For the same people?
Dean: You have to look and see for yourself we're talking about a lot of times people are happy and satisfied with the way their newsletter is working out but the postcard is a unique and distinct thing-
Alex: Exactly and I love it for that. It stands out because everybody is sending newsletters and I know that. I just believe the content, what we send has to be something that they see as a value. Because for example, with my database I had an issue here in Toronto there's a lot of pre-construction going on and a lot of new condo projects are announced. At some point whenever there's a new project I would just email it to my whole database including past clients and current clients. And then what I've noticed is that some actually valuable clients would unsubscribe. This is where I think what goes where has to be well thought and categorized and segmented.
Dean: Yes.
Alex: And this is exactly where I want to start with the system here really to have a clear plan, clear ideas as to the steps and not rush to implement even everything right away but make sure that everything is implemented, finished done and working and then move on to the next step. Because all that and exactly what you notice is what I know is that I've been picking up here and there and it's not the way I want to go. I want to make it a system and focus my attention on the priorities.
Dean: Yes, that's exactly right.
Alex: Yeah.
Dean: That's great. Well, Alex, I think we have a good plan established for you here.
Alex: Awesome. I will follow up with Diane and really start working on those first steps. Yeah, I'm very excited to get it going.
Dean: Awesome. Well, I really enjoyed our conversation it went fast.
Alex: Same here. Same here.
Dean: Thanks, Alex. I'll talk to you soon.
Alex: Thank you so much. Enjoy your time in Toronto.
Dean: Okay, thanks. Bye, bye.
Alex: Bye.
Dean: And there we have it. Another great episode and if you'd like to continue the conversation, you can go to ListingAgentLifestyle.com. You can download a copy of the Listing Agent Lifestyle book, the manifesto that shares everything that we're talking about here. And you can be a guest on the show if you'd like to talk about how we can build a Listing Agent Lifestyle plan for your business.
Just click on the Be a Guest link at ListingAgentLifestyle.com and if you'd like to join our community of people who are applying all of the things we talk about in the Listing Agent Lifestyle, come on over to GoGoAgent.com. It's where we got all the programs, all the tools, everything you need to get listings, to multiply your listings, to get referrals, convert leads and to find buyers. You can get a truly free no credit card required trial for 30 days at GoGoAgent.com.
Come on over and I will see you there.